Turn Off Ads?
Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 2345678 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 107

Thread: Cueto and Volquez move into the "spring training" starting rotation

  1. #76
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    15,740

    Re: Cueto and Volquez move into the "spring training" starting rotation

    If you walk people, you have no chance. If you get behind people, you have little chance.
    How can Dusty say this and then fail to appreciate it when his own players do it offensively? Seems that walks and deep counts are a failure of the pitcher, not a success of the hitter to Dusty. Interesting.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #77
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,560

    Re: Cueto and Volquez move into the "spring training" starting rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    How can Dusty say this and then fail to appreciate it when his own players do it offensively? Seems that walks and deep counts are a failure of the pitcher, not a success of the hitter to Dusty. Interesting.
    I'm not sure what Dusty's thinking is wrong as much as maybe he is a little less articulate then we'd like when he talks about it. I always try to remember that these guys are ballplayers (or ex-ballplayers) and not public speakers, so I don't get too bent out of shape about the soundbites which usually lack context and may suffer from poor articulation skill.

    My understanding of hitting is basically:

    1. Wait for your pitch.
    2. When it comes, jump all over it because you may not get it again.
    3. Protect the plate with 2 strikes.

    My suspicion is that Dusty's comments are more about being more aggressive in reference to steps 2 and 3 which is ok in my book. If he's talking about altering step one, then its a problem. But looking at Dusty's playing career with about a 10% walk rate, I find it hard to assume that he is saying that.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  4. #78
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,839

    Re: Cueto and Volquez move into the "spring training" starting rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    Big quote by Dusty. I think this explains alot. For a guy like Cueto, he may be gassed by June if not before. Especially if Dusty does his "mojo".


    Give it up and stop with your agenda driven posts.

  5. #79
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    15,740

    Re: Cueto and Volquez move into the "spring training" starting rotation

    I think you might be right, mth. I'm constantly wondering how much of Dusty is actual philosophy and how much is just imprecise phrasing.

    When it comes to your 3 step approach, one BIG question I have is whether or not he appreciates the difference between what "your pitch" means to say, Adam Dunn, compared to your average contact hitter, or a particularly good one like Jeff Keppinger.

    My understanding is that part of Dunn's problem is simply an inability to make good contact with as many pitches as well other players can. If he's letting "his pitches" go, then I agree he should be more aggressive in swinging at them, but I wonder how many times he's letting strikes go because if even he could make contact, it wouldn't be hard contact.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  6. #80
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    26,501

    Re: Cueto and Volquez move into the "spring training" starting rotation

    For the record, Wood and Prior were injuries in progress....Dusty or no Dusty - all he was trying to do was win a pennant.

  7. #81
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cincy
    Posts
    2,257

    Re: Cueto and Volquez move into the "spring training" starting rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    Big quote by Dusty. I think this explains alot. For a guy like Cueto, he may be gassed by June if not before. Especially if Dusty does his "mojo".
    Pretty bad post there. What would you do with Cueto? Sit him on the bench for a year to save his arm?
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

    www.kylevoska.com - Golfer? Check out my blog for golf tips.

  8. #82
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,559

    Re: Cueto and Volquez move into the "spring training" starting rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    Pretty bad post there. What would you do with Cueto? Sit him on the bench for a year to save his arm?
    I think it's a fair point -- Cueto has put a lot of mileage on his arm in the past 365 days.

    At what point does that catch up with him, and at what point does he start risking his long-term (or even short term) health by continuing to pitch? Even if health doesn't become an issue, reduction in velocity could really hurt a smaller pitcher like Cueto.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  9. #83
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Crescent Springs KY
    Posts
    3,572

    replies

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I'm not sure what Dusty's thinking is wrong as much as maybe he is a little less articulate then we'd like when he talks about it. I always try to remember that these guys are ballplayers (or ex-ballplayers) and not public speakers, so I don't get too bent out of shape about the soundbites which usually lack context and may suffer from poor articulation skill.

    My understanding of hitting is basically:

    1. Wait for your pitch.
    2. When it comes, jump all over it because you may not get it again.
    3. Protect the plate with 2 strikes.

    My suspicion is that Dusty's comments are more about being more aggressive in reference to steps 2 and 3 which is ok in my book. If he's talking about altering step one, then its a problem. But looking at Dusty's playing career with about a 10% walk rate, I find it hard to assume that he is saying that.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I think you might be right, mth. I'm constantly wondering how much of Dusty is actual philosophy and how much is just imprecise phrasing.

    When it comes to your 3 step approach, one BIG question I have is whether or not he appreciates the difference between what "your pitch" means to say, Adam Dunn, compared to your average contact hitter, or a particularly good one like Jeff Keppinger.

    My understanding is that part of Dunn's problem is simply an inability to make good contact with as many pitches as well other players can. If he's letting "his pitches" go, then I agree he should be more aggressive in swinging at them, but I wonder how many times he's letting strikes go because if even he could make contact, it wouldn't be hard contact.
    This is 'old school'. I remember Pete Rose hitting like this. Early in the count look for a certain pitch in a certain spot. If it is there then crush it. Obviously later in the count you have to be more selective. If a basher like Dunn lets a 2-0 fastball down the heart of the plate go by him with guys on base then you have to say "what the heck are you doing?". I know Mike Schmidt last year criticized some of the modern players approach at the plate ( not Dunn specifically ) and I think he was trying to make this point.
    .

  10. #84
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    15,740

    Re: Cueto and Volquez move into the "spring training" starting rotation

    While I agree they were on the path to injury already, the Prior/Wood situation is interesting. If the Reds are in a dead heat down the stretch for the division, does he ask Cueto/Volquez to give another inning after 110 pitches in start number 32 in September?

    How many years of somebody's future do you put at risk for the game at hand? If Dusty was told "for every pitch beyond the first 100 Cueto throws today, he loses 20 off the end of his career", would Dusty still push him so hard?

    What really frustrates me about the whole conversation is that those extra pitches usually aren't that great of quality anyways. Is the step down from pitches 101+ from your starter really that much worse than pitches 1-20 from your middle reliever? Is that difference really worth the risk?

    And who's to say that Prior might not have had a few more good years before falling apart? Who's to say that they wouldn't have gotten more out of him in 2004? Nearly all pitchers get injured eventually -- it's just a manner of when and how. You are always managing that pitchers health.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  11. #85
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    15,740

    Re: replies

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    This is 'old school'. I remember Pete Rose hitting like this. Early in the count look for a certain pitch in a certain spot. If it is there then crush it. Obviously later in the count you have to be more selective. If a basher like Dunn lets a 2-0 fastball down the heart of the plate go by him with guys on base then you have to say "what the heck are you doing?". I know Mike Schmidt last year criticized some of the modern players approach at the plate ( not Dunn specifically ) and I think he was trying to make this point.
    And if it's 1-0 with a guy on first and there's a pitch on the outside corner that you can maybe flip in to LF (while risking a weak grounder to 3B), should you take the strike or hold out for something you can yank? It's definitely shades of gray.

    Unless a weak hit scores the tying or go-ahead run, or unless there's two strikes, I'd want Dunn managing the at bat to maximize the chance he can do some real damage -- or get on base and let the next guy do the damage. That's what's interesting to me about Dusty's "next guy up" comment. Given Dunn's ability to work a walk, shouldn't he be hitting somewhere that takes advantage of both his ability to move guys around the bases AND set it up for the next guy? Given that Phillips can only do the former well, drop him in to a spot where he'll hit with guys on base, but his low OBP won't hurt as much. Seems like Dusty gets the assumptions right and just comes to the wrong conclusions. I'd love to see a reporter challenge him on those comments in a respectful way -- see what he says.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 03-16-2008 at 06:08 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  12. #86
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,559

    Re: Cueto and Volquez move into the "spring training" starting rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    While I agree they were on the path to injury already, the Prior/Wood situation is interesting. If the Reds are in a dead heat down the stretch for the division, does he ask Cueto/Volquez to give another inning after 110 pitches in start number 32 in September?
    And, for that matter, does Krivsky (on the last year of his deal, with Jocketty looking over his shoulder) ever step in to say anything?
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  13. #87
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,673

    Re: Cueto and Volquez move into the "spring training" starting rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post


    Give it up and stop with your agenda driven posts.
    Disagree. After 1 outing, Cueto and Volquez already were already coming into mid-season form. Dusty just told us why.

  14. #88
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    8,768

    Re: Cueto and Volquez move into the "spring training" starting rotation

    I think Cueto threw a grand total of 19 innings of winter league ball. THAT's why he's been dominating? Seriously? 19 innings? I mean, seriously?

  15. #89
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    24,881

    Re: Cueto and Volquez move into the "spring training" starting rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    I think Cueto threw a grand total of 19 innings of winter league ball. THAT's why he's been dominating? Seriously? 19 innings? I mean, seriously?
    Those 19 innings are going to kill his arm by July, no doubt.
    "The guy I think could be really good in center is Adam Dunn. If someone asked me if Dunn could be a center fielder for the next 10 years, if he started working on it, no one could explain to me why he couldn’t do it." - Brad Kullman

  16. #90
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    24,881

    Re: Cueto and Volquez move into the "spring training" starting rotation

    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...=.jsp&c_id=cin

    Volquez making Reds believers

    SARASOTA, Fla. -- For those of you wondering why the Reds were willing to trade Josh Hamilton for Edinson Volquez, the answer was on display at Ed Smith Stadium on Sunday afternoon.
    "You just saw why we got him," Reds catcher Javier Valentin said. "He showed what people expect to see of him."

    Matched against Philadelphia's Brett Myers and facing a lineup that included Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley and Ryan Howard, Volquez pitched five scoreless innings.

    The right-hander struck out six to boost his spring total to 19 -- more than any pitcher in the Grapefruit or Cactus Leagues through Sunday's early games. He's racked up that impressive total in just 13 innings. Volquez gave up just three hits, all singles, and lowered his ERA to 3.46. He has walked only three batters.

    Spring Training results can be misleading, but there's no denying Volquez has a Major League repertoire.

    Volquez got Rollins, the reigning National League Most Valuable Player, to chase a changeup for strike three in the first. Moments later he fanned Howard, the 2006 NL MVP, on another changeup.

    "That changeup is his best pitch," Valentin said. "He had it today. He's got four pitches he can throw anytime [and] he's not afraid to use them."

    Volquez is making a serious bid for a spot in the Reds rotation. If the 24-year-old Dominican can keep throwing his changeup, fastball, curveball and slider for strikes with this frequency, the Reds may have something special. And if Monday's scheduled starter, Johnny Cueto, keeps wowing scouts, Reds staff and everyone else, the Reds might be ready to make some noise in the NL Central.

    Such notions are premature for now. Any Rangers fan will tell you Volquez has shown flashes of brilliance before, only to fall on hard times when control problems undermined his efforts.

    The kid says this time is different.

    "Not like this," he said when asked about those teasing performances in Texas. "I feel more comfortable now, [I'm] throwing more strikes. That's what I was looking for, throwing more strikes and being consistent in the zone."

    There's one other difference, according to Volquez.

    "I'm controlling my emotions, too," he said, then laughed, "I'm getting older, man!"

    Volquez has been getting tips on pitching mechanics from Reds instructor Mario Soto.

    Soto, you might recall, had a changeup second to none, one that helped the right-hander fan 1,449 batters in 297 games back in the '80s.

    Having a great changeup and knowing how to use it effectively don't always go hand in hand. But Volquez seems to be learning quickly. For example, he figured Howard would be sitting on his changeup the second time up with two strikes so he went with the fastball instead.

    "I know he was looking for a changeup, that's what the good hitters do," Volquez said.

    Howard, late on the fastball, didn't get a great swing, but managed to get enough of the ball to drop a base hit to center. Volquez would later strike out Geoff Jenkins swinging to end the inning.

    The Reds might miss Hamilton, himself having a fine spring for the Rangers, but it is clear Volquez can pitch.

    For 2008 the only question is where. Will it be in Cincinnati, or the Minor Leagues?
    These two are going to be really, really fun to watch this year.
    "The guy I think could be really good in center is Adam Dunn. If someone asked me if Dunn could be a center fielder for the next 10 years, if he started working on it, no one could explain to me why he couldn’t do it." - Brad Kullman


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25