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Thread: College Admissions are a joke

  1. #1
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    College Admissions are a joke

    Seriously, my brother is going through the whole process right now, and it's a joke.

    My brother applied to a bunch of colleges, and he's a pretty damn good student. He's got a 4.65 GPA on a 4.0 scale, 1540 of 1600 on his SAT's, 34 on his ACT's, he's been on varsity cross country since he was a sophomore, he won team MVP this year, and he's also a 3-year varsity track athlete who owns the school record for the sophomore mile. All the colleges he applied to (Rhodes, Illinois, Indiana, Notre Dame), he might not get any money from any of them. Same thing with my oldest brother. He had a 4.73 GPA out of 4.0, 1420 SAT and 34 ACT, and was a 3 sport varsity athlete (football, basketball, track) and he started in all of them. The money he received was minimal at best.

    However, my family and I have researched the kind of kids who do receive this money (we've asked people online, made phone calls, ect.) and most of them have the same academic stats, if not worse, but they are not athletes. The kids who receive the money(and I'm talking scholarship money not financial aid) are the one's who are supposedly "active participants in their communities." These kids have the occasional community service, but also have summer internships and work jobs through the course of the year. The admissions counselors seem to be very impressed by their abilities to work 15-20 hours a week and still maintain great academics.

    I would like to take this time to say that this is bullcrap. As a high school student, I know what influences kids and what doesn't. The kids who are working jobs, earning money, and doing community service are helping the community, but slightly. I'm not against community service, it's great, and I try to do as much as possible, but it's not always feasible to have loads and loads of it on an application. As a student, I barely even know the kids who are involved in these activities, and I know a lot of people. I don't really associate myself with a group of kids, I drift around and talk to everyone. The kids that have a major impact on the school and THEREFORE THE COMMUNITY are the varsity athletes. You may not like it, but it is true. My brother was a positive role model throughout high school, he never drank nor smoked, and still doesn't in college, and he influenced grammar school kids who tell me they want to be like my brother. THE ATHLETES ARE THE ONES WHO PUT 25-30 HOURS IN A WEEK, STILL MAINTAIN GREAT GRADES, AND IMPACT THEIR SCHOOLS, BUT THEY DON'T GET ANY MONEY!!! Seriously, my brothers and I all are dedicated athletes that put in 25-30 hours a week, but because we can't do as much community service due to our dedication, we won't get as much money.

    Sorry, I needed to protest that injustice.

    For the record, I know that most athletes are block headed fools, but I'm talking about the great student athletes that are deserving of money.

    EDIT: Woops the title is supposed to read "College Admissions is a joke." The fact that I made it "are" is really embarassing and probably eliminates any chance of me being taken seriously.
    Last edited by griffeyfreak4; 03-17-2008 at 11:47 PM.
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  3. #2
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    Re: College Admissions are a joke

    First time I have ever heard someone say athletes are getting a raw deal. I'd say that there needs to be a balance considering athletes usually get all the money. These schools want a well rounded student base and that isn't always there from athletes.
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  4. #3
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: College Admissions are a joke

    Your brothers sound like fine young men and I'm sure they'll be huge success in whatever they do.

    There was a very interesting series of articles about athletic scholarships last week in the NY Times. They aren't as plentiful as everyone thinks.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/sp...olarships.html.

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    Re: College Admissions are a joke

    How do you get over a 4.0 GPA?

    Why do athletes deserve special treatment--they chose to play sports?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Re: College Admissions are a joke

    I agree that your brothers sound like fine young men.

    However, my family and I have researched the kind of kids who do receive this money (we've asked people online, made phone calls, ect.) and most of them have the same academic stats, if not worse, but they are not athletes.
    Are you seriously suggesting that there is no scholarship money available for athletes in this country? I mean...I'm sorry that your brother's have chosen the wrong sports to look for school money with, athletic scholarship money for boys tends to go to the two major revenue producers, but that is the way things are.

    Now you can turn around and say..."but they're great kids with great grades" and at that point you've taken away their athletic accomplishments and they're in the same pool with everybody else. The folks giving out that money DO have an incentive to focus on non-athletic skills. (Precisely because there is so much money being given to the Football/Basketball guys) Non athletic skills often means things like community service and volunteer work.

    Again, your brothers sound like great kids. Welcome to the real world. FWIW kids with grades like that DO get reduced tuition rates at state schools in Ohio.
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    Re: College Admissions are a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    How do you get over a 4.0 GPA?

    Why do athletes deserve special treatment--they chose to play sports?
    That's what I was wondering. If it's on a 4.0 scale then 4.0 means all A's right?

    Maybe they've changed it and started giving out A+'s since I got out of high school, which wasn't that long ago. I think it's dumb if that's how it is.

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    Re: College Admissions are a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs23 View Post
    That's what I was wondering. If it's on a 4.0 scale then 4.0 means all A's right?

    Maybe they've changed it and started giving out A+'s since I got out of high school, which wasn't that long ago. I think it's dumb if that's how it is.
    Extra credit for college prep or AP classes would be my guess.
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    Re: College Admissions are a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Extra credit for college prep or AP classes would be my guess.
    why? You are already getting college credit for them...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Re: College Admissions are a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    why? You are already getting college credit for them...
    Oh... I agree...

    And actually, I believe you actually have to obtain a certain score on the AP tests to actually get college credit for AP classes.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  11. #10
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    Re: College Admissions are a joke

    Unfortunately, the entire college admissions process for the "top tier schools" is a crock. Those schools are competing tooth and nail to land a specific kind of kid and maybe you and your brother just aren't the kind of kids they want. And there is nothing wrong with that, so screw 'em. Unfortunately, parents, counselors, and the media have bought into the idea that kids need to get into those schools in order to get a good education.

    Believe me, that's a bunch of bull- 90% of the time it doesn't matter a lick where a kid went to school. What matters is what they have done with the education available to them.

    School is going to cost you and your parents money. You are going to incur debt and you will spend the first ten years of your career paying it off. That may seem like an awful thing, but in reality it is not. You are among an advantaged group already- those who are well off academically and who have a chance to attend a four year institution of their choosing. You are already doing well, relatively speaking. You are going to find a school, you will do well there, you will graduate and it will prepare you well for your professional life.

    My advice (and this comes from having worked in a university system) is to find a school that is a match for you. Find a school where you can continue your athletic career, whether it gets you money or not. Find a school that seems like a place that wants you, where you would like to spend four years, a place where you think you will grow and change and learn well. It may cost more than you and your parents would like, but you will manage. Once you get there, think about it as an investment; maximize your future value and earning potential by soaking up the entire college experience, academically and socially.

    It's a crock and it's frustrating, but the reality is that a lot of colleges are fighting over enrollment now like they haven't in the past. You'll be fine, but you also have my sympathies.
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  12. #11
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    Re: College Admissions are a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs23 View Post
    That's what I was wondering. If it's on a 4.0 scale then 4.0 means all A's right?

    Maybe they've changed it and started giving out A+'s since I got out of high school, which wasn't that long ago. I think it's dumb if that's how it is.
    In Va. Beach, you get 4.5 points (on a 4-point scale) for an A in an AP class, 3.5 points for a B, etc. My guess is that's similar to what's going on here.
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  13. #12
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    Re: College Admissions are a joke

    At our HS (Mason HS), if you get a B or above in honors or AP classes, there is .03 added to your GPA.

    The valedictorian of my son's class had a 5.25 GPA. That was pretty much a perfect storm. He took every honors and AP class possible and aced them all.

    GPAs over 4.0 are relatively routine. To get in the top 10% of my sons class (490+ kids), you needed at least a 4.25.

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    Re: College Admissions are a joke

    Most high schools have weighted GPAs, so you get a 5 for an A in an honors class and perhaps a 6 for an A in an AP course. This is to make class rankings make a bit more sense.

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    Re: College Admissions are a joke

    Weighted classes are on 5.0 scales, so lots of kids can have GPAs over 4.0.

    One thing you've got to realize is that most schools don't care about weighted GPAs; they only look at unweighted. I'm not sure that really makes much of a difference in this case, it's just something you should understand. Also, do not underestimate the importance of writing samples/admissions essays.

    The University of Missouri (which is where I completed my undergraduate education) has a number of automatic scholarships. Score X on the ACT/SAT, have a GPA greater than or equal to Y, and be ranked in the Zth percentile of your high school class and you automatically get a four year scholarship. Perhaps the schools you are talking about don't have a system like this.

    Last, don't for a second think you are being forced to bear the financial burden of your education; you aren't. Even if you (or whoever) receives no scholarship, grant, or need based aid money, your education is still heavily subsidized by the federal and state government, even at private schools.

  16. #15
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    Re: College Admissions are a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by pahster View Post
    Weighted classes are on 5.0 scales, so lots of kids can have GPAs over 4.0.

    One thing you've got to realize is that most schools don't care about weighted GPAs; they only look at unweighted. I'm not sure that really makes much of a difference in this case, it's just something you should understand. Also, do not underestimate the importance of writing samples/admissions essays.

    The University of Missouri (which is where I completed my undergraduate education) has a number of automatic scholarships. Score X on the ACT/SAT, have a GPA greater than or equal to Y, and be ranked in the Zth percentile of your high school class and you automatically get a four year scholarship. Perhaps the schools you are talking about don't have a system like this.

    Last, don't for a second think you are being forced to bear the financial burden of your education; you aren't. Even if you (or whoever) receives no scholarship, grant, or need based aid money, your education is still heavily subsidized by the federal and state government, even at private schools.
    I think they look at percentile more than actual GPA. I think getting a GPA over 4.0 doesn't make any sense. It just isn't possible to get anything over 100%.


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