College Admissions are a joke

[griffeyfreak4]

Seriously, my brother is going through the whole process right now, and it's a joke.

My brother applied to a bunch of colleges, and he's a pretty damn good student. He's got a 4.65 GPA on a 4.0 scale, 1540 of 1600 on his SAT's, 34 on his ACT's, he's been on varsity cross country since he was a sophomore, he won team MVP this year, and he's also a 3-year varsity track athlete who owns the school record for the sophomore mile. All the colleges he applied to (Rhodes, Illinois, Indiana, Notre Dame), he might not get any money from any of them. Same thing with my oldest brother. He had a 4.73 GPA out of 4.0, 1420 SAT and 34 ACT, and was a 3 sport varsity athlete (football, basketball, track) and he started in all of them. The money he received was minimal at best.

However, my family and I have researched the kind of kids who do receive this money (we've asked people online, made phone calls, ect.) and most of them have the same academic stats, if not worse, but they are not athletes. The kids who receive the money(and I'm talking scholarship money not financial aid) are the one's who are supposedly "active participants in their communities." These kids have the occasional community service, but also have summer internships and work jobs through the course of the year. The admissions counselors seem to be very impressed by their abilities to work 15-20 hours a week and still maintain great academics.

I would like to take this time to say that this is bullcrap. As a high school student, I know what influences kids and what doesn't. The kids who are working jobs, earning money, and doing community service are helping the community, but slightly. I'm not against community service, it's great, and I try to do as much as possible, but it's not always feasible to have loads and loads of it on an application. As a student, I barely even know the kids who are involved in these activities, and I know a lot of people. I don't really associate myself with a group of kids, I drift around and talk to everyone. The kids that have a major impact on the school and THEREFORE THE COMMUNITY are the varsity athletes. You may not like it, but it is true. My brother was a positive role model throughout high school, he never drank nor smoked, and still doesn't in college, and he influenced grammar school kids who tell me they want to be like my brother. THE ATHLETES ARE THE ONES WHO PUT 25-30 HOURS IN A WEEK, STILL MAINTAIN GREAT GRADES, AND IMPACT THEIR SCHOOLS, BUT THEY DON'T GET ANY MONEY!!! Seriously, my brothers and I all are dedicated athletes that put in 25-30 hours a week, but because we can't do as much community service due to our dedication, we won't get as much money.

Sorry, I needed to protest that injustice.

For the record, I know that most athletes are block headed fools, but I'm talking about the great student athletes that are deserving of money.

EDIT: Woops the title is supposed to read "College Admissions is a joke." The fact that I made it "are" is really embarassing and probably eliminates any chance of me being taken seriously.

[Cedric]

First time I have ever heard someone say athletes are getting a raw deal. I'd say that there needs to be a balance considering athletes usually get all the money. These schools want a well rounded student base and that isn't always there from athletes.

[Roy Tucker]

Your brothers sound like fine young men and I'm sure they'll be huge success in whatever they do.

There was a very interesting series of articles about athletic scholarships last week in the NY Times. They aren't as plentiful as everyone thinks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/sp...olarships.html.

[*BaseClogger*]

How do you get over a 4.0 GPA?

Why do athletes deserve special treatment--they chose to play sports?

[Redlegs23]

How do you get over a 4.0 GPA?

Why do athletes deserve special treatment--they chose to play sports?

That's what I was wondering. If it's on a 4.0 scale then 4.0 means all A's right?

Maybe they've changed it and started giving out A+'s since I got out of high school, which wasn't that long ago. I think it's dumb if that's how it is.

[dabvu2498]

That's what I was wondering. If it's on a 4.0 scale then 4.0 means all A's right?

Maybe they've changed it and started giving out A+'s since I got out of high school, which wasn't that long ago. I think it's dumb if that's how it is.

Extra credit for college prep or AP classes would be my guess.

[*BaseClogger*]

Extra credit for college prep or AP classes would be my guess.

why? You are already getting college credit for them...

[RichRed]

That's what I was wondering. If it's on a 4.0 scale then 4.0 means all A's right?

Maybe they've changed it and started giving out A+'s since I got out of high school, which wasn't that long ago. I think it's dumb if that's how it is.

In Va. Beach, you get 4.5 points (on a 4-point scale) for an A in an AP class, 3.5 points for a B, etc. My guess is that's similar to what's going on here.

[dfs]

I agree that your brothers sound like fine young men.

However, my family and I have researched the kind of kids who do receive this money (we've asked people online, made phone calls, ect.) and most of them have the same academic stats, if not worse, but they are not athletes.

Are you seriously suggesting that there is no scholarship money available for athletes in this country? I mean...I'm sorry that your brother's have chosen the wrong sports to look for school money with, athletic scholarship money for boys tends to go to the two major revenue producers, but that is the way things are.

Now you can turn around and say..."but they're great kids with great grades" and at that point you've taken away their athletic accomplishments and they're in the same pool with everybody else. The folks giving out that money DO have an incentive to focus on non-athletic skills. (Precisely because there is so much money being given to the Football/Basketball guys) Non athletic skills often means things like community service and volunteer work.

Again, your brothers sound like great kids. Welcome to the real world. FWIW kids with grades like that DO get reduced tuition rates at state schools in Ohio.

[SunDeck]

Unfortunately, the entire college admissions process for the "top tier schools" is a crock. Those schools are competing tooth and nail to land a specific kind of kid and maybe you and your brother just aren't the kind of kids they want. And there is nothing wrong with that, so screw 'em. Unfortunately, parents, counselors, and the media have bought into the idea that kids need to get into those schools in order to get a good education.

Believe me, that's a bunch of bull- 90% of the time it doesn't matter a lick where a kid went to school. What matters is what they have done with the education available to them.

School is going to cost you and your parents money. You are going to incur debt and you will spend the first ten years of your career paying it off. That may seem like an awful thing, but in reality it is not. You are among an advantaged group already- those who are well off academically and who have a chance to attend a four year institution of their choosing. You are already doing well, relatively speaking. You are going to find a school, you will do well there, you will graduate and it will prepare you well for your professional life.

My advice (and this comes from having worked in a university system) is to find a school that is a match for you. Find a school where you can continue your athletic career, whether it gets you money or not. Find a school that seems like a place that wants you, where you would like to spend four years, a place where you think you will grow and change and learn well. It may cost more than you and your parents would like, but you will manage. Once you get there, think about it as an investment; maximize your future value and earning potential by soaking up the entire college experience, academically and socially.

It's a crock and it's frustrating, but the reality is that a lot of colleges are fighting over enrollment now like they haven't in the past. You'll be fine, but you also have my sympathies.

[pahster]

Believe me, that's a bunch of bull- 90% of the time it doesn't matter a lick where a kid went to school. What matters is what they have done with the education available to them.

Yes and no. It really depends on what one wants to do, although I would think that for the vast majority of straight out of college entry level jobs, it doesn't really matter. You can get a good education at nearly any school.

Grad school confounds things, especially for PhD programs. If you want to go into academia, then your undergraduate institution matters a lot. This is one reason why it's important for kids to go to the best school they get into; don't pick the University of Miami over Yale no matter how much cooler you think Miami is than New Haven.

For example, had I gone to Washington University rather than the University of Missouri, I likely would have gotten into some slightly better PhD programs (I actually did fairly well despite going to a much lesser school. I figure I got a little lucky and benefited from having an incredibly well connected and well known adviser who happens to study the same topics I want to research).

[SunDeck]

Yes and no. It really depends on what one wants to do, although I would think that for the vast majority of straight out of college entry level jobs, it doesn't really matter. You can get a good education at nearly any school.

Grad school confounds things, especially for PhD programs. If you want to go into academia, then your undergraduate institution matters a lot. This is one reason why it's important for kids to go to the best school they get into; don't pick the University of Miami over Yale no matter how much cooler you think Miami is than New Haven.

For example, had I gone to Washington University rather than the University of Missouri, I likely would have gotten into some slightly better PhD programs (I actually did fairly well despite going to a much lesser school. I figure I got a little lucky and benefited from having an incredibly well connected and well known adviser who happens to study the same topics I want to research).

Sure, grad school confounds things. However, the percentage of kids who go directly from undergrad to grad school is low, and beyond that the number of kids who actually plan on a graduate degree while choosing an undergrad program is infinitesimally small. Moreover, if a kid waits a few years to go to grad school, then the source of the undergrad degree becomes less and less relevant (ie, MPA programs love to admit people with professional experience and you can get an extremely good MBA from places like XU that might actually market more to professionals than to students.) Anyway, I'm not sure exactly how to integrate the fact that grad school matters into the equation for a huge percentage of kids, so I just left that off.

But yeah- it matters if you plan on going on. I agree with that completely. I think it is stupid, but it matters.

[Boston Red]

This is one reason why it's important for kids to go to the best school they get into

Don't believe the hype on this one. At least not totally. I work at a law firm with a bunch of wicked smaht Hahvad kids who are grossly, and ridiculously in debt. Me, I went to Xavier and UNC Law, took their scholarship money and am debt free (from a student loan perspective). I'd actually be much worse off if I'd have gone to Yale and Harvard.

[pahster]

Don't believe the hype on this one. At least not totally. I work at a law firm with a bunch of wicked smaht Hahvad kids who are grossly, and ridiculously in debt. Me, I went to Xavier and UNC Law, took their scholarship money and am debt free (from a student loan perspective). I'd actually be much worse off if I'd have gone to Yale and Harvard.

I wasn't talking about law school, I was talking about academia. I honestly don't know anything about law (or med) school. Two kids with similar application packages, one from Xavier and one from Harvard; the kid from Harvard will, in all likelihood, get into better PhD programs than the kid from Xavier. The better your graduate institution is, the more likely you are to get a tenure track job. Fair or not, that's how it works.

[SunDeck]

I wasn't talking about law school, I was talking about academia. I honestly don't know anything about law (or med) school. Two kids with similar application packages, one from Xavier and one from Harvard; the kid from Harvard will, in all likelihood, get into better PhD programs than the kid from Xavier. The better your graduate institution is, the more likely you are to get a tenure track job. Fair or not, that's how it works.

Just like a PhD candidate- forgets there is a world out there.