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Thread: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

  1. #1
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...ds.html?page=0

    ...What Baker discovered was the same thing fellow older and successful managers Lou Piniella and Jim Leyland discovered before him. Today's new-wave, stats-consumed general managers aren't interested in hiring established high-profile managers with proven track records, preferring instead to develop their own at mostly entry level salaries. (See: John Russell in Pittsburgh, Trey Hillman in Kansas City, Bob Geren in Oakland, Manny Acta in Washington, Bud Black in San Diego). It takes special circumstances for the Piniellas, Leylands and Bakers to get hired, mainly the owner's involvement. In Baker's case, Reds owner Bob Castellini superceded his GM, Wayne Krivsky (who was of a mind to retain Pete Mackanin, who'd gone 41-39 after taking over the Reds from Jerry Narron last July) and made it clear he wanted a "name" manager.

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  3. #2
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    Well that makes me feel a whole lot better about Wayne Krivsky and makes me wish Castellini didn't think he was Steinbrenneer.

  4. #3
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    Haha did they just insinuate that Krivsky is a "new-wave, stats-consumed" general manager?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  5. #4
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    MacKanin was a smarter version of Narron, I could see why Krivsky would have wanted to keep him.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    I'm not disputing that this isn't true, but how do we know this for sure? The NY Daily News (while not quite the NY Post in terms of reliability) is not the NY Times and it's not like that is a direct quite.

    Anyway, if it is true, then it's kind of unfortunate because it sounds like Krivsky isn't in full control of the team.

  7. #6
    Member redsrule2500's Avatar
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    Re: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    not surprised on this one. It's almost too bad, I really liked how Pete handled the team.
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    Re: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    Pete was a little by-the-book for me.

  9. #8
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    Not a shock, Baker had owner guy written all over him from day one.
    Go Gators!

  10. #9
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Anyway, if it is true, then it's kind of unfortunate because it sounds like Krivsky isn't in full control of the team.
    I'd say MOST GMs are in full control. Maybe Beane, maybe Schuerholz when he was in ATL....this sort of thing is probably more common than we'd guess to imagine.

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  11. #10
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    Well, I don't see how anyone can really long for Pete McKain over Dusty.

    If anything, this quote further shows that Bob wants to win ASAP, while Wayne is content to be on a 3-5-10 year plan..

    Personally, I'm glad the guy that wants to win now owns the team, even if the hire of Dusty turns out to be bad, at least the owner has his heart in the right place. Gives me more hope that someday this franchise might get turned around.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Well, I don't see how anyone can really long for Pete McKain over Dusty.

    If anything, this quote further shows that Bob wants to win ASAP, while Wayne is content to be on a 3-5-10 year plan..

    Personally, I'm glad the guy that wants to win now owns the team, even if the hire of Dusty turns out to be bad, at least the owner has his heart in the right place. Gives me more hope that someday this franchise might get turned around.
    Or maybe it shows that one person knows who is a bad fit for a specific group of players and one guy who wanted to hire that exact guy because of his name.

  13. #12
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    If anything, this quote further shows that Bob wants to win ASAP, while Wayne is content to be on a 3-5-10 year plan..
    I think it suggests that a GM who was likely already on the hot seat wasn't about to tell the owner that the best course of action was to spend millions of dollars a year on a big name manager, whether he really wanted him not.
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  14. #13
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I think it suggests that a GM who was likely already on the hot seat wasn't about to tell the owner that the best course of action was to spend millions of dollars a year on a big name manager, whether he really wanted him not.
    Good point. Especially if Dusty's salary comes out of the same pot of money that the money for players comes from. Wayne may have preferred to stick with Mackanin so he could spend more of the Dusty money on players.
    /r/reds

  15. #14
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    Wayne must be an awfully good liar considering he talked about how the FO, including himself, was pursuing Dusty since the middle of last season according to what is already in print. Never mind Krivsky is not a "new wave, stats consumed general manager," just go ahead and take what this writer said at face value? This little parentheses is little more than a writer having a premise and writing a blurb that makes it sound like he has inside information to prove his theory.

    Reds introduce Baker as manager
    Club holds press conference to introduce Cincinnati's skipper
    By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com



    CINCINNATI -- If there were some who wondered whether or not Dusty Baker was the right fit to manage Reds, there was at least one common bond shared by both sides.
    An absolute desperation to win, and to win quickly.

    "Hopefully we can have that championship ticker-tape parade. That's what I really need. I need it badly," said Baker on Monday as he was introduced as Cincinnati's new skipper. "You just don't know how badly I need it. I'm spoiled by winning. Once you win, you get more spoiled each time you win. You want more and more. It's kind of like a disease I don't want to cure. I just want to satisfy it."

    The Reds have endured 12 seasons since their last postseason appearance in 1995 and seven straight losing seasons.

    "We're both starving, so I hope we can both eat at the same time," Baker said. "Even when I asked my son [Darren], 'What do you think of the Cincinnati Reds?' he says, 'Dad, they always start off good and end up in last place.' I said 'No, Dad is here to change that.'"

    Reds owner/CEO Bob Castellini and general manager Wayne Krivsky are banking on it, and gave Baker a three-year contract through the 2010 season. The 58-year-old has 14 seasons of managerial experience with the Giants (1993-2002) and Cubs (2003-06) and is a three-time National League Manager of the Year. He went to the World Series with San Francisco in 2002.

    That kind of resume brought instant credibility in the minds of Castellini and Krivsky.

    "This guy is a winner," Krivsky said. "The more I'm around him, he's a very sincere, genuine person that relates well to players. He's someone that communicates, somebody that creates an attitude that winning is the only thing we're after here, but we're going to go about it the right way and professional way.

    "The more you talk to people that have been around him more than I have, he just commands that respect. Players want to play for Dusty Baker."

    Baker owns a 1,162-1,041 career record as a skipper and will become the first African-American manager in Reds history. With Marvin Lewis as the head coach of the NFL's Bengals, a city often criticized for its race relations issues will have African-Americans leading both of its professional sports franchises.

    "I think it says a lot for Cincinnati and it says a lot for the organization," Baker said. "The organization certainly would not have made such a move if it had feared that the city or the area would not have accepted this change at this time.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "This guy is a winner."
    -- Reds GM Wayne Krivsky, on the hiring of Dusty Baker

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Hopefully, there will come a time when you no longer look at me as an African-American manager or leader. You look at me as a man and a leader that's going to lead your team regardless of who I am and what face that I have."

    The Reds received permission from Commissioner Bud Selig to make the announcement during the playoffs.

    Neither Castellini nor Krivsky would divulge the other candidates for the position other than interim manager Pete Mackanin. Under Mackanin, the Reds went 41-39 after the team was 31-51 with Jerry Narron by July 1.

    Krivsky said Mackanin had a spot in the organization, if he wanted it.

    "Pete is going to come out the better for this for the experience," Krivsky said. "He's only elevated his status in the game in the eyes of other baseball people. There will be place if he thinks it's the best place for him. I'm confident he'll be getting some other opportunities, whether it's as a coach or manager with another team. He's a field guy and belongs on the field."

    Speculation throughout the second half rested on whether the Reds would go with Mackanin or someone with a bigger name. And while Baker's name is among the biggest among current managers, Castellini insisted name recognition wasn't an overriding factor.

    "He's a proven winner, a proven leader, experienced in winning," Castellini said. "He's won 90 games five times. We've won 90 games as a franchise since [1980] three times. When he has all those attributes, he's naturally going to be a high-profile manager. But did we go out to find some rock star? No."

    Neither Krivsky nor Castellini would reveal how many candidates were up for the job.

    "We didn't do a formal search. We exhaustively searched who was available," Castellini said. "[Baker] was one fellow we went after."

    Baker was dismissed by the Cubs after back-to-back losing seasons, including a 66-96 campaign in 2006. He spent the 2007 season working as a television analyst for ESPN, where he will remain throughout the postseason.

    Word leaked by Thursday that the Reds and Baker were talking seriously, but the process started much earlier.

    "I talked to Wayne sometime midsummer. I talked to him on the phone," Baker said. "They had approached me and it was sort of feeling each other out, not knowing what was going to transpire. I had a job and they already had an interim manager here. I talked to Bob shortly thereafter."

    There was little activity between the two sides for a couple of months. Everything accelerated once the season ended.

    "They approached me very aggressively," Baker said. "It didn't take a very long time to make up their minds or my mind, which how is how l like to do things. You either want me or you don't. They showed me that they did. We got things rolling and it transpired very quickly."

    "The overriding words that you hear are 'commands respect,' 'born leader', 'a winner,' 'universally respected by players and management alike,'" Krivsky said. "This guy embodies everything you're looking for in a leader, and a winner. When you talk to players and hear those things, it really gives it some oomph when the players make the comments that they do."

    Mark Sheldon is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

  16. #15
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Baker -- not Wayne's choice?

    I talked to Bob shortly thereafter.
    Not Wayne, but Bob. We didn't catch this before.
    /r/reds


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