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Thread: Stanton for Wes Helms?

  1. #16
    So long old friend rotnoid's Avatar
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    Not to mention the deal would save the Reds about $900,000. What's not to like?

    With Stanton's buyout next year, it's more like $1.4M.
    I'm just like everybody else. I have two arms, two legs and 4,000 hits."

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  3. #17
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    Quote Originally Posted by rotnoid View Post
    With Stanton's buyout next year, it's more like $1.4M.
    even better
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  4. #18
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    So if you get Helms, what happens with Scott Hatteberg? Helms makes more money than Hatteberg, hasn't hit as well as Scott has recently, and offers only a younger age and some dubious positional flexibility (as Wes is a mediocre defender at both third and in the OF).

    I'm not against ditching Stanton- I'm just suspicious about what Helms' presence might do for Joey Votto as well as Scott Hatteberg.

  5. #19
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    This deal even makes more sense if Freel is actively being shopped. Freels true value is that he can do so many things. I think with Keppinger being able to play 3rd do we really even need helms, but we can't hold all these pitchers and getting rid of that salary is a win win situation. I'd rather have Merker then Stanton. Is that how others feel? Not sure we even need a helms though. Heck, do the deal and waive him. LOL Or use him in another trade to sweeten a deal. I don't know him that well so hard to speculate there.
    And This One Belongs to the REDS!!!

  6. #20
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott View Post
    So if you get Helms, what happens with Scott Hatteberg? Helms makes more money than Hatteberg, hasn't hit as well as Scott has recently, and offers only a younger age and some dubious positional flexibility (as Wes is a mediocre defender at both third and in the OF).

    I'm not against ditching Stanton- I'm just suspicious about what Helms' presence might do for Joey Votto as well as Scott Hatteberg.
    Helms is the Hatteberg replacement, no doubt. Acquiring him woudl necessitate moving Hatteberg. Helms platoons when Votto is up and still provides the veteran insurance should Votto really struggle.

    It would require some juggling, but an ability to eek out some real roster efficiencies could be a big differentiator in the Reds' success this year.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  7. #21
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    Why would a team trade for Stanton? he may be free to anyone in a week.
    Go Gators!

  8. #22
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    There's about to be a dump of free agents onto the market (guys without options, NRIs). Seems to be a very tough time to make a deal. I wouldn't be surprised if the Reds do nothing but release a bunch of players.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  9. #23
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    There's about to be a dump of free agents onto the market (guys without options, NRIs). Seems to be a very tough time to make a deal. I wouldn't be surprised if the Reds do nothing but release a bunch of players.
    The same could be said about Helms. If that's a roster inefficiency for the Phillies, it's going to be difficult to trade him given the WW dump. This would be a way for them to cut salary while adding a more useful part (by their judgment).
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. #24
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    The same could be said about Helms. If that's a roster inefficiency for the Phillies, it's going to be difficult to trade him given the WW dump. This would be a way for them to cut salary while adding a more useful part (by their judgment).
    sure.

    our overpriced vet coming off a bad year for your overpriced vet coming off a bad year. we get something we need ( RH bench bat with some power ) and you get something you need ( LH reliever ).

    IMO this is the only way guys like Stanton or Helms can be traded without the team eating a ton of salary.
    .

  11. #25
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    The same could be said about Helms. If that's a roster inefficiency for the Phillies, it's going to be difficult to trade him given the WW dump. This would be a way for them to cut salary while adding a more useful part (by their judgment).
    But if the deal costs them $$$ (as a deal for Stanton may), they might just prefer to bottom feed.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  12. #26
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    But if the deal costs them $$$ (as a deal for Stanton may), they might just prefer to bottom feed.
    I think it goes unsaid that the Reds would eat the salary difference to make the deal happen. It would save the Phillies money by not having to pay Helms AND a LH reliever signed off the wire.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #27
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    I think it goes unsaid that the Reds would eat the salary difference to make the deal happen. It would save the Phillies money by not having to pay Helms AND a LH reliever signed off the wire.
    Yeah. Makes sense.

    From the Reds' point of view, Helms seems redundant with A. Phillips/Cabrera and, to an extent, A. Green (not to mention Keppinger when Gonzalez gets back). More logjam at a time when Krivsky's trying to unload. The only way the deal would seem to really help, in my opinion, is if they can spin Helms elsewhere, and, as noted, it's not a great time of year to find takers for marginal players.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  14. #28
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Yeah. Makes sense.

    From the Reds' point of view, Helms seems redundant with A. Phillips/Cabrera and, to an extent, A. Green (not to mention Keppinger when Gonzalez gets back). More logjam at a time when Krivsky's trying to unload. The only way the deal would seem to really help, in my opinion, is if they can spin Helms elsewhere, and, as noted, it's not a great time of year to find takers for marginal players.
    The difference of course being that Helms is a guy with a career .835 OPS vL over 696 major league at bats.

    Cabrera hasn't been in the majors since 2004 and has a career .706 OPS vL in 537 PA. Andy Phillips has a career .544 OPS vL in 164 PA.

    Helms is by far the best bench option of the three. And that doesn't count allowing us to carry a young effective reliever who otherwise would be in AAA, like Bill Bray or Josh Roenicke.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  15. #29
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    I would trade Stanton for a wax figure of a crappy ballplayer that has long since passed away

    If nothing else, Wes Helms breathes.....and he's not a shabby ballplayer either!

  16. #30
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    Re: Stanton for Wes Helms?

    Cabrera hasn't been in the majors since 2004 and has a career .706 OPS vL in 537 PA. Andy Phillips has a career .544 OPS vL in 164 PA.

    Helms is by far the best bench option of the three.
    On paper. Helms was way down last year. Cabrera and Phillips also have more defensive versatility. I tend to think Cabrera brings a lot to the table precisely because he has not been in the majors for a while. Helms is seeing his career stagnate and slip. (The main benefit to acquiring Helms is they they wouldn't have to face him -- seems to me he has killed the Reds lately.)

    And that doesn't count allowing us to carry a young effective reliever who otherwise would be in AAA, like Bill Bray or Josh Roenicke.
    All they have to do is release Stanton.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini


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