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View Poll Results: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt tonight?

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  • Yes - All major leaguers should be able to bunt

    14 15.73%
  • No - Never ask a player to bunt when he can't

    75 84.27%
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Thread: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

  1. #61
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    Hey a picture of RFS
    Go Gators!

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  3. #62
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    Stupid decision and I'm actually glad that good MLB hitters have no idea how to lay down a bunt. Bunting is absolutely not something that every hitter needs to be proficient at and it shouldn't take even one second away from a good hitter's batting practice.

    Demand that your pitchers and your low-OBP hitters be able to use it as a way to advance Runners. Demand that low-SLG players be able to use it as a way to potentially get on base.

    But leave the good hitters alone and let them do their job.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  4. #63
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Stupid decision and I'm actually glad that good MLB hitters have no idea how to lay down a bunt. Bunting is absolutely not something that every hitter needs to be proficient at and it shouldn't take even one second away from a good hitter's batting practice.

    Demand that your pitchers and your low-OBP hitters be able to use it as a way to advance Runners. Demand that low-SLG players be able to use it as a way to potentially get on base.

    But leave the good hitters alone and let them do their job.
    Yea the DBacks are stupid for having their players bunt. All that stupidity led them to the NL Championship series. I don't, nor will I ever, understand why people think that bunting, especially in a situation like the other night, is stupid.

    As often as the Bill James want to disregard small ball and bunting it still is very useful in today's game. It was great that Edwin hit a HR but I think it is also as likely that he could have hit into a double play.

  5. #64
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Yea the DBacks are stupid for having their players bunt. All that stupidity led them to the NL Championship series. I don't, nor will I ever, understand why people think that bunting, especially in a situation like the other night, is stupid.

    As often as the Bill James want to disregard small ball and bunting it still is very useful in today's game. It was great that Edwin hit a HR but I think it is also as likely that he could have hit into a double play.

    If the D-Backs get outscored again on the season, I can assure you they won't make the playoffs.

    They were lucky to even make the playoffs last year.

    The one game the D-backs win in this series was due to three solo HR's.

  6. #65
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Yea the DBacks are stupid for having their players bunt. All that stupidity led them to the NL Championship series. I don't, nor will I ever, understand why people think that bunting, especially in a situation like the other night, is stupid.

    As often as the Bill James want to disregard small ball and bunting it still is very useful in today's game. It was great that Edwin hit a HR but I think it is also as likely that he could have hit into a double play.
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  7. #66
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Yea the DBacks are stupid for having their players bunt. All that stupidity led them to the NL Championship series. I don't, nor will I ever, understand why people think that bunting, especially in a situation like the other night, is stupid.

    As often as the Bill James want to disregard small ball and bunting it still is very useful in today's game. It was great that Edwin hit a HR but I think it is also as likely that he could have hit into a double play.
    I have no problem with a bunt in that general situation, but I'm not exactly big on asking players to bunt who aren't any good at it. It's one thing to believe every player should be able to bunt, but it's just denial once you know some of them are not able. You are asking a player to do something that you already know he isn't good at doing, and you're only ever asking him to do it at the most critical moments in a game. If you're really committed to teaching every player to bunt, find a way to teach them how before you ask them to do it in those critical moments.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  8. #67
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    I don't know why it is that ballplayers are expected to be able to "learn" every skill if coached and practiced. There's simply some stuff that some players aren't that good at and are not going to get much better at.
    Dunn's not going to practice himself into a GG outfielder. Brandon Phillips isn't going to "learn" to pitch. EE might get better at bunting, but he's never going to be a Norris Hopper.

    I'm sure EE has taken tons of bunting practice since he was in high school, all the way up through the minors and I'll bet he was practicing plenty for Narron last year. He's probably as good as he can be at it right now (which who knows how good is that). I doubt it's from lack of trying.

    He might be called upon to bunt maybe 5 times in a season (at most).
    Compare that with 500+ PA and several hundred chances in the field.

    Sorry, I don't buy this "every major league player has to know how to bunt" thing. Sure, it's a nice skill to have, but if you don't have it...you don't. Bunting won't make you a ML player...and not doing it shouldn't hold you back, either.
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  9. #68
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Yea the DBacks are stupid for having their players bunt. All that stupidity led them to the NL Championship series. I don't, nor will I ever, understand why people think that bunting, especially in a situation like the other night, is stupid.
    The 2007 Arizona Diamondbacks finished 2nd to last in the NL in Sacrifice Bunts. Non-Pitchers Sac Bunted exactly 26 times all last season. Only the Managers of Florida, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, and Atlanta asked their position players to Sac Bunt less than that. Of those 26 Sac Bunts, 10 came from two players (Drew, Hudson).

    That 2007 Arizona squad doesn't at all back your contention. And I'll assume that you'll be surprised to know that the 2007 Cincinnati Reds finished tied for third in the NL in positional player Sac Bunts.

    As often as the Bill James want to disregard small ball and bunting it still is very useful in today's game. It was great that Edwin hit a HR but I think it is also as likely that he could have hit into a double play.
    Encarnacion bunting in that situation doesn't somehow take the Reds out of a Double Play situation as the opponent can put you right back into a DP situation any time they want to.

    Could Encarnacion have hit into a DP even though he hasn't demonstrated a real propensity to do so? Sure. But the choice isn't "HR or DP". Over the past three years, Encarnacion has walked to the plate 427 times when he could have hit into a DP. 160 times he's produced a non-Out event (113 Hits, 33 BB, 14 HBP). Only 22 times has he grounded into a DP.

    That's 160 to the good and 22 to the bad. And the 160 to the good includes 45 Extra Base Hits that would have likely plated both runners. Over his career, Encarnacion has produced events likely to tie or win the game in that situation over twice as often as he's hit into a DP.

    As with all hitters, it's more likely that Encarnacion makes an Out versus anything else in any particular PA. However, the number of times he's done something good when faced with a DP situation absolutely dwarfs the number of DP's he's hit into.

    I don't have to invoke Bill James to know that asking Encarnacion to bunt in that situation was pure stupid.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  10. #69
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Over his career, Encarnacion has produced events likely to tie or win the game in that situation over twice as often as he's hit into a DP.
    The end.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  11. #70
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Encarnacion bunting in that situation doesn't somehow take the Reds out of a Double Play situation as the opponent can put you right back into a DP situation any time they want to.
    In this particular situation, if there are runners on 2nd and 3rd, a walk to set up the double play would also put the winning run on base.

    Generally speaking, intentional walks don't happen in this situation. So avoiding the DP is a fairly valid consideration.

    However, with all considerations (that I can think of) in place, particularly with regard to personel, I say no bunt here.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  12. #71
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    In this particular situation, if there are runners on 2nd and 3rd, a walk to set up the double play would also put the winning run on base.
    Playing for the tie at home is not that odd of a plan in the game, and playing to get the winning run on is the ultimate goal, unfortunately it's not always going to be a HR.

  13. #72
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Playing for the tie at home is not that odd of a plan in the game, and playing to get the winning run on is the ultimate goal, unfortunately it's not always going to be a HR.
    Agreed. I was thinking from the other dougout's perspective.

    Walks that allow the winning run to reach base are generally frowned upon, even if they do set up a double play.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  14. #73
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Playing for the tie at home is not that odd of a plan in the game, and playing to get the winning run on is the ultimate goal, unfortunately it's not always going to be a HR.
    If that's your plan, then make enough of a commitment to your own plan to send a good bunter to the plate to execute it.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  15. #74
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    I guess there are two elements to this question.

    First, a lot of discussion has focused on the use of a bunt in this situation regardless of who's hitting. A lot of posters are arguing against the concept of giving an out away here.

    Second, if you are going to bunt, do you ask Edwin to lay one down, knowing how infrequently he's done it in the past?

    I don't think Dusty was kidding on the interview the other day. I think he meant it. He expects them all to be able to bunt. He brushed aside the number of bunts he's put down in games..... his answer was that they practiced it every day. He was defending their preparation for bunting, not apologizing for the decision.
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  16. #75
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    Re: Should Dusty have asked Edwin to bunt?

    Well, not saying in this situation EE should have bunted because he's clueless, but I believe that all postion players should be able to bunt - at least better then that effort. A quality hitter like this, which on the who's a better hitter BP or EE thread (many say EE - not me) - should be able to bunt. Now, if that thread comes along again I can add that EE can't bunt for anything, but he should practice. He looked worse then anyone I've ever seen. Wouldn't it be cool at some point where he can do a squeeze bunt to win a game when no one will ever suspect that.
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