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Thread: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

  1. #1
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    I know it's only three games into the season, but after watching the Reds play three against Arizona I vastly prefer the Reds talent mix. Cincinnati made some mistakes and the offense never clicked, but the Reds flashed a broad team skill set while AZ mostly subsisted on solo homers. For me, the clincher is the Reds have Coco Cordero to close games whlle the DBacks have the immensely suspect Brandon Lyon (whom I predict will not last long in the closer role).

    It's been a long time since we've been able to entertain the notion that the Reds could actually be better than a 90-win club from the previous season, and I'll confess I'm surprised by my conviction on this.

    Mind you, the 2007 DBacks were just about the worst 90-win team you'll ever see. Adding Dan Haren was a nice touch, but there's a lot of outs in that lineup, the back of the rotation is shaky and the bullpen is NOT going to repeat its nearly unconscious 2007 performance.

    Even so, the Reds have spent seven years being worse than most other problematic opponents. Now they've got a few different ways to win a given game. Whether they can win enough to make this a season to remember remains to be seen. It's possible that the Reds could squander a lot of potential in 2008, allowing lesser clubs (like Arizona) to post better records, but this fan is going to be taking the "there's no good reason the Reds shouldn't win today" attitude more often than not.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  3. #2
    Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    I agree with you. In order to see that translate into wins on the field though, we are going to probably have to strengthen the middle of the bullpen from within, keep our top 4 starters (Harang, Cueto, Volquez, Arroyo) healthy and *fresh* without overusage, and maximize our offensive output without compromising our defense. For example, Keppinger must still find a way to play regularly when Gonzo returns, don't allow EdE's lapses to play him into the dog house, don't allow a Patterson/Gonzalez table setting tandem at the top of the order, hopefully regular starts for Votto as opposed to Hatte etc...

    We have a pretty nice balance of potent bats and arms, despite some design flaws... Now, we need to put them in the best position to consistently maximize their results. Hopefully Dusty will stay out of the way, and this can be a 86+ win NL Central contender, rather than a spectacle of inconsistency en route to 79-80 wins. The jury is out, but the talent is there IMO

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    Re: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    Don't forget that Arizona is missing Valverde from the 2007 mix so maybe the REDS do not get the chance to over power Lyon in the 9th like last night and Conor Jackson has been missing for the last two days.

    But its good to see the REDS win whichever way it is - it 162 regular games and as long as you win more than all the teams in the NL Central you have a chance to make the World Series.

  5. #4
    Yay! dabvu2498's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    Reds beat the D-Backs 4 out of 6 last year, also.

    But I agree, matching them up, position for position, skill for skill, I like the Reds chances of being above .500 better than the D-Backs.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  6. #5
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    I agree with you. In order to see that translate into wins on the field though, we are going to probably have to strengthen the middle of the bullpen from within, keep our top 4 starters (Harang, Cueto, Volquez, Arroyo) healthy and *fresh* without overusage, and maximize our offensive output without compromising our defense. For example, Keppinger must still find a way to play regularly when Gonzo returns, don't allow EdE's lapses to play him into the dog house, don't allow a Patterson/Gonzalez table setting tandem at the top of the order, hopefully regular starts for Votto as opposed to Hatte etc...

    We have a pretty nice balance of potent bats and arms, despite some design flaws... Now, we need to put them in the best position to consistently maximize their results. Hopefully Dusty will stay out of the way, and this can be a 86+ win NL Central contender, rather than a spectacle of inconsistency en route to 79-80 wins. The jury is out, but the talent is there IMO
    Good breakdown.

    IMO flipping Dunn and Jr. in the batting order would pay some dividends too, but I'm not expecting it any time soon.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  7. #6
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    He might not make the highlight reels, but the continued presence of Jeff Keppinger at the top of the lineup could very well be a significant factor in our success.

    Given his very impressive minor league track record and success last season, I don't believe he's a fluke. He's a high average hitter who puts the ball in play and a fundamentally sound, if range-deficient, defender. I feel comfortable saying that his bat more than makes up the difference between his and Alex Gonzalez's glove. I fully support using him as the RH 1B platoon.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  8. #7
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    Are they a better team? Haren and Webb trump any two pitchers the reds can run out there right now. The DBacks play better fundamental baseball while the reds don't seem to know what the word fundamental is.

    I think the reds have a better offense than the DBacks but Wood and Upton may just turn it on as the season goes along. Over a 162 game season are the reds better? perhaps. Over a 5 game playoff are the reds better? dont think so. I take Webb and Haren over most 1-2 punches in baseball.

  9. #8
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    He might not make the highlight reels, but the continued presence of Jeff Keppinger at the top of the lineup could very well be a significant factor in our success.

    Given his very impressive minor league track record and success last season, I don't believe he's a fluke. He's a high average hitter who puts the ball in play and a fundamentally sound, if range-deficient, defender. I feel comfortable saying that his bat more than makes up the difference between his and Alex Gonzalez's glove. I fully support using him as the RH 1B platoon.
    I agree RMR.

    I'm not sure that Gonzalez shouldn't just play SS against LHP.


    (then again, after a little research, it appears AG is even worse against LHP than he is RHP... and that's not easy)
    Last edited by pedro; 04-03-2008 at 05:21 PM.
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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    Let me just take a minute to say I love you Johnny Cueto. What an absolutely mind-blowing performance by young Johnny Cueto today. That was as dominant performane by a Reds pitcher as I've seen in a while. Aaron Harang has turned in some great ones the last couple seasons but this one here tops them all IMO. One batter over the minimum in his major league debut with zero walks and 10 strikeouts. How impressive is that?

  11. #10
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    Not to mention, if Cueto can really put up league average numbers (or better), it takes a LOT of pressure off of Harang and Arroyo.

  12. #11
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Whether they can win enough to make this a season to remember remains to be seen. It's possible that the Reds could squander a lot of potential in 2008, allowing lesser clubs (like Arizona) to post better records, but this fan is going to be taking the "there's no good reason the Reds shouldn't win today" attitude more often than not.
    I see this team as full of talent but very unproven. I suspect they may well end up all over the place -- flashes of brilliance admist a lot of minor disasters. Our heroes from the last two games are prime examples: Cueto is going to off the rails and flying into the stands one game at least. Encarnacion will still make some dumb mistakes.

    Youth so often needs time to learn equanimity through the course of a game. Some teams' young players make the transition pretty seamlessly, but something tells me that all the change in this team (players, management, etc.) won't give way to immediate consistency. Perhaps it's the fact that the bulk of really great talent on this team is really young...it's not a real balance in my opinion. We poo-poo veteran leadership around here, but that's one reason I like Hatteberg on the bench -- he seems to have that kind of positive, even-tempered leader personality.

    So I see that as a real reason for fans not to expect this team to win today. Less talented teams may well post better records, I agree, and that's acceptable for a short period of time given the learning curve. But I would rather have this team too. I think.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  13. #12
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    Re: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    is Dunn suddenly a ballplayer?

  14. #13
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    He might not make the highlight reels, but the continued presence of Jeff Keppinger at the top of the lineup could very well be a significant factor in our success.

    Given his very impressive minor league track record and success last season, I don't believe he's a fluke. He's a high average hitter who puts the ball in play and a fundamentally sound, if range-deficient, defender. I feel comfortable saying that his bat more than makes up the difference between his and Alex Gonzalez's glove. I fully support using him as the RH 1B platoon.
    I'm starting to become convinced that Jeff Keppinger is just a flat out better ballplayer than Alex Gonzalez. I'm also starting to think that the only action Gonzalez should see when he returns is against LHP when Keppinger moves over to first base for a platoon.
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  15. #14
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    is Dunn suddenly a ballplayer?
    Looks comfortable in the field, doesn't he?

    I'm not quite sure what to make of it, but he's done his job in the field with easy efficiency so far.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  16. #15
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are a better team than the DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    I'm starting to become convinced that Jeff Keppinger is just a flat out better ballplayer than Alex Gonzalez. I'm also starting to think that the only action Gonzalez should see when he returns is against LHP when Keppinger moves over to first base for a platoon.
    If he's a mirage at this point it's one hot damn desert.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun


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