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View Poll Results: Did Dusty make the right decision taking Adam Dunn out of the game early?

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  • No

    50 79.37%
  • Yes

    10 15.87%
  • Other (explain)

    3 4.76%
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Thread: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

  1. #31
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Actually, Baker pretty much couldn't use Hatteberg as a pinch hitter after Valentin pulled up lame. That aside...

    While I see your point, I also don't think what your league average Manager could be expected to do insulates Baker. Just because your league average Manager might not understand how to properly leverage a bullpen, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't expect our Manager to be able to do it.

    Secondly, part of Baker's plan was to get 2 Innings out of a guy (Burton) who'd never recorded six consecutive MLB Outs in a game prior to yesterday. So instead of using Weathers or even Lincoln (who threw all of six pitches the day before), Baker actually pushed a high-leverage pen arm in an effort to "save" the bullpen while also guaranteeing that the most powerful bat on the team wouldn't see another PA.

    To me, that's all sorts of bad.
    I think its fair to expect more. I've been disappointed too much to do so I guess.

    I think Burton is not in the "high leverage role" right now. I think Lincoln and Mercker have passed him. Right or wrong, Burton is in the "prove to me you've got it together by succeeding in the role that I use you in and that will be multi innings when we're behind" role. I think he did a good job in regaining his spot last night.

    If you are suggesting that Hatte was the next option behind the plate, I'm for it. Let him start there against RH pitchers at home. It shouldn't be a huge load for him, it will keep his bat fresh without having to sit Votto and it avoids the carnage of Ross, Javy or Bako playing once in a while.
    Last edited by mth123; 04-05-2008 at 10:49 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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  3. #32
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think its fair to expect more. I've been disappointed too much to do so I guess.

    I think Burton is not in the "high leverage role" right now. I think Lincoln and Mercker have passed him. Right or wrong, Burton is in the "prove to me you've got it together by succeeding in the role that I use you in and that will be multi innings when we're behind" role. I think he did a good job in regaining his spot last night.
    Man, if two guys who didn't combine for a single MLB pitch in 2007 have passed Jared Burton in the pecking order, then you might have just identified yet another issue.

    If you are suggesting that Hatte was the next option behind the plate, I'm for it. Let him start there against RH pitchers at home. It shouldn't be a huge load for him, it will keep his bat fresh without having to sit Votto and it avoids the carnage of Ross, Javy or Bako playing once on a while.
    Yeah, after Valentin pulled up lame, the only realistic option was to hold Hatteberg in reserve to protect against Bako going down as well.

    Jeez. Until I typed that, I had no idea how awful that sounds.

    Waiter! Catcher please?!!
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
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  4. #33
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Waiter! Catcher please?!!
    LMAO
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  5. #34
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Man, if two guys who didn't combine for a single MLB pitch in 2007 have passed Jared Burton in the pecking order, then you might have just identified yet another issue.



    Yeah, after Valentin pulled up lame, the only realistic option was to hold Hatteberg in reserve to protect against Bako going down as well.

    Jeez. Until I typed that, I had no idea how awful that sounds.

    Waiter! Catcher please?!!
    AaronH is the emergency emergency emergency catcher.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  6. #35
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    AaronH is the emergency emergency emergency catcher.
    Here is the emergency emergency emergency emergency catcher.

    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  7. #36
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Man, if two guys who didn't combine for a single MLB pitch in 2007 have passed Jared Burton in the pecking order, then you might have just identified yet another issue.
    I assume Burton's awful spring has temporarily moved him to low leverage innings until he gets on a roll. If he pitches well, he'll switch back unless the other guys refuse to be removed with their pitching. I have some hopes that Lincoln may grab that role and hang onto it. The team needs a reliever to emerge from nowhere. Lincoln looks like the best bet right now, but Burton helped himself a lot last night IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  8. #37
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    I thought it was an absolutely atrocious decision, already surpassing the EE bunt decision for Dusty's "Worst Managerial Decision of 2008." I don't expect this decision to hold that distinction very long either, however.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
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  9. #38
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    Yes, this was dumb. I'm of the opinion that you never double switch for an inferior hitter when you're behind. If you're ahead, and you can bring in a guy who plays better defense, then there's a chance the move is defensible.

    You can NOT double switch and still save the bullpen. If the Reds come back, they would use Cordero anyway. If Burton gives up five runs and the game is basically over, then you can bring in a position player to pitch to save the pen.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  10. #39
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    Dusty's explanation, from Fay:

    "I didn't want to take him out," Baker said. "But I needed to get two inning out of (Jared) Burton. I don't want to use up the bullpen. This is four-game series."





    Next time they can skip a pitcher, let's skip the crappy one. Just my take.

  11. #40
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    So far, Dusty has seemed to be trying to jam a square peg into a round hole.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  12. #41
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    Dusty's explanation, from Fay:

    "I didn't want to take him out," Baker said. "But I needed to get two inning out of (Jared) Burton. I don't want to use up the bullpen. This is four-game series."




    How many years is Dusty signed for?
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  13. #42
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    I am willing to give Dusty the benefit of the doubt for now. It has only been 4 games and I am sure he is getting used to his new ballclub. I am not as worried about his managerial choices as I am about this offense. Hopefully with Krivs help he can make better choices on his lineup, 2 LH 1st baseman is the worst choice so far.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

  14. #43
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    I am willing to give Dusty the benefit of the doubt for now. It has only been 4 games and I am sure he is getting used to his new ballclub. I am not as worried about his managerial choices as I am about this offense. Hopefully with Krivs help he can make better choices on his lineup, 2 LH 1st baseman is the worst choice so far.
    The redundancy of Freel and Hopper trumps Votto and Hatteberg, IMO.

  15. #44
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    Dunn has the most powerful potential bat in the lineup but you also have to look at how he was playing last night. He did not really have the hot hand and really the 2,3 and 4 may have only come up again last night. At that point the REDS were only trying to stay in the game. Can't really fault the double switch given that its a 162 game season and the first game in a four game series.

  16. #45
    Resident optimist OldRightHander's Avatar
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    Re: Second Guess the Manager Poll: Today's Topic Dunn Pulled

    Yep, pretty boneheaded move, but maybe we wouldn't be having this discussion if Fogg had turned in a solid outing. The game still hinges on solid pitching. Maybe preventing Philly from plating 8 runs would have gone a long way toward winning the game.


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