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Thread: A revamped rotation

  1. #1
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    A revamped rotation

    Arroyo has been our no. 2 in the rotation for a couple of years, but it might be best to move him lower down in the rotation now. We may never see Arroyo return to 2006 form. Cueto and Volquez both seem to have better stuff and command than Arroyo(at least presently), and I think it would do the Reds better to have him in the 4 slot. Here is a rotation I would like to see in the future:

    1. Aaron Harang
    2. Johnny Cueto
    3. Edinson Volquez
    4. Bronson Arroyo
    5. Fogg/ Belisle/ Bailey in the future

    Let me know what all of you think about this new rotation.

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  3. #2
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    Re: A revamped rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    Arroyo has been our no. 2 in the rotation for a couple of years, but it might be best to move him lower down in the rotation now. We may never see Arroyo return to 2006 form. Cueto and Volquez both seem to have better stuff and command than Arroyo(at least presently), and I think it would do the Reds better to have him in the 4 slot. Here is a rotation I would like to see in the future:

    1. Aaron Harang
    2. Johnny Cueto
    3. Edinson Volquez
    4. Bronson Arroyo
    5. Fogg/ Belisle/ Bailey in the future

    Let me know what all of you think about this new rotation.
    Hopefully if the young ones keep it up, this will be about right.
    However alot of times the number doesnt really matter.
    Example, Volquez is #5 yet faces Myers #1. Now in the playoffs, it would definitely matter.

  4. #3
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    Re: A revamped rotation

    1) It's early/Small sample size/And so forth.

    2) The difference in number of starts between your "#1" and your "#5" (assuming perfect health) is going to be, like, 3 or 4. Outside of situations where you want to start matching your pitchers up against opposing rotations in a certain fashion, this whole notion of "slotting" pitchers strictly in accordence with their perceived value with a pointless exercise. Who cares if Arroyo pitches after Harang or two days after Harang? They're going to get the same number of starts if both are healthy... SP slots are numbers, an order. They aren't "rankings." It's silly to treat them as such prior to October.

    3) Arroyo's not "#2" in our current pitching order, anyway. Arbitrarily calling Harang's position "#1," Arroyo is now #3. Volquez is "#2," Cueto "#4," and Fogg "#5." It'll probably stay this way for a while, and as I noted in another thread, all this spastic whining over Fogg being "#4" is misplaced now, as not only is he "#5," but our only off day in the next 3 weeks happens to fall on the day of his turn. Welcome to Skipsville, USA, Josh. Population: You.


    Rick

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    Re: A revamped rotation

    The only thing I disagree with is having Edinson and Johnny back to back. They are similar pitchers so you need to break them up with another pitcher. Here is my future rotation:

    1. Cueto
    2. Harang
    3. Volquez
    4. Bailey
    5. Arroyo
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    Re: A revamped rotation

    All I know is that Arroyo is a change of pace from the fastballers. He needs to be in the middle somewhere.
    Who's on first?

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    Re: A revamped rotation

    Arroyo will be fine folks. Although he may not be a true #2 pitcher, he is competitor and will eat up innings. Yesterday he pitched well but was being squeezed by a moving strike zone.

    Although Cueto and Volquez had impressive starts, one game should not have them passing Harang or Arroyo in the rotation. If the continue to perform then okay but let's not get the cart before the horse here.

  8. #7
    The Future GoReds33's Avatar
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    Re: A revamped rotation

    I would like to see the youngsters moved up in the rotation, but with Arroyo and Harang at the top, it gives the bullpen some time between the young pitchers to rest.

  9. #8
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    Re: A revamped rotation

    what is going on with arroyo? last year we can blame lack of offensive support, but this year he's just not pitching well

  10. #9
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    Re: A revamped rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    Arroyo has been our no. 2 in the rotation for a couple of years, but it might be best to move him lower down in the rotation now. We may never see Arroyo return to 2006 form. Cueto and Volquez both seem to have better stuff and command than Arroyo(at least presently), and I think it would do the Reds better to have him in the 4 slot. Here is a rotation I would like to see in the future:

    1. Aaron Harang
    2. Johnny Cueto
    3. Edinson Volquez
    4. Bronson Arroyo
    5. Fogg/ Belisle/ Bailey in the future

    Let me know what all of you think about this new rotation.

    Well, it's not very easy to move Cueto up two spots - which also pushes everyone else back a spot.

    I like the rotation the way it is currently configured:

    Harang
    Volquez
    Arroyo - except he SUCKS in day games, a stat I'm sure Dusty will continue to ignore
    Cueto
    Fogg

    That's the way they lined them up for opening week - but the Tuesday day off meant Volquez's first start was Saturday.

    IMO this is ideal, since Arroyo doesn't really match up well versus other teams' 2, he's more a natural #3 (or 4), so that's better for him.

    Volquez or Cueto could man the #2, but splitting them up is the important thing. Volquez gets the nod since he's got more experience starting, but neither guy seems to feel ANY pressure taking the mound with little/no big-league experience.

    Most importantly, it slots Fogg in the #5 - and puts his day off at the 14th. Volquez and Cueto get a day off on May 1 and May 8th respectively.

    They'll probably need to mix it up a bit at some point, since Cueto probably needs more days off then anybody - IMO - since he threw A LOT of innings last year, and hasn't gotten past the "injury nexus" or whatever the heck the stats guys call it. I think we need to limit his innings as much as possible to avoid any dead-arm or excess wear and tear while he's still young. they'll probably try to mix in more off days for Fogg as well to limit his exposure.

    A lot of it will depend on the match-ups too, and how other teams' adjust to impart those.

    Again, it's no small task to move guys ONE position, let alone TWO, and especially when you're talking about a young guy. NO WAY does Cueto move up that much in the rotation - without some major tweaking and giving him an extra 3 days rest.

    It should be interesting to watch how it is handled though as the season progresses.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

  11. #10
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    Re: A revamped rotation

    I have watched baseball long enoough to realize it is crazy to read anything into one week of baseball. Arroyo is not as bad as he has looked and the two youngsters are not as good as they looked. All three are quality starting pitchers and will be fine. Our 1-4 regardless of order is better than we have had in a very long time.
    Ron Popeil apologist.

  12. #11
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    Re: A revamped rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDS View Post
    Well, it's not very easy to move Cueto up two spots - which also pushes everyone else back a spot.

    I like the rotation the way it is currently configured:

    Harang
    Volquez
    Arroyo - except he SUCKS in day games, a stat I'm sure Dusty will continue to ignore
    Cueto
    Fogg

    That's the way they lined them up for opening week - but the Tuesday day off meant Volquez's first start was Saturday.

    IMO this is ideal, since Arroyo doesn't really match up well versus other teams' 2, he's more a natural #3 (or 4), so that's better for him.

    Volquez or Cueto could man the #2, but splitting them up is the important thing. Volquez gets the nod since he's got more experience starting, but neither guy seems to feel ANY pressure taking the mound with little/no big-league experience.

    Most importantly, it slots Fogg in the #5 - and puts his day off at the 14th. Volquez and Cueto get a day off on May 1 and May 8th respectively.

    They'll probably need to mix it up a bit at some point, since Cueto probably needs more days off then anybody - IMO - since he threw A LOT of innings last year, and hasn't gotten past the "injury nexus" or whatever the heck the stats guys call it. I think we need to limit his innings as much as possible to avoid any dead-arm or excess wear and tear while he's still young. they'll probably try to mix in more off days for Fogg as well to limit his exposure.

    A lot of it will depend on the match-ups too, and how other teams' adjust to impart those.

    Again, it's no small task to move guys ONE position, let alone TWO, and especially when you're talking about a young guy. NO WAY does Cueto move up that much in the rotation - without some major tweaking and giving him an extra 3 days rest.

    It should be interesting to watch how it is handled though as the season progresses.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I thought this was the current rotation: Harang
    Arroyo
    Cueto
    Fogg
    Volquez

    In that case, Cueto would only be moving up one spot. I would be fine with Arroyo splitting up Cueto and Volquez, as you can make a good case we may need to split up the fireballers. Arroyo may end up in the fourth slot eventually, but he may not be there yet. I think last year showed Cueto may be able to throw about 175 IP this year, but you will have to be very careful about it.

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    Re: A revamped rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
    I have watched baseball long enoough to realize it is crazy to read anything into one week of baseball. Arroyo is not as bad as he has looked and the two youngsters are not as good as they looked. All three are quality starting pitchers and will be fine. Our 1-4 regardless of order is better than we have had in a very long time.
    Great post! I agree 100%. I also don't believe it really matters whether you are #2 or # 4. Each spot will get the same amount of starts.

  14. #13
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    Re: A revamped rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds33 View Post
    I would like to see the youngsters moved up in the rotation, but with Arroyo and Harang at the top, it gives the bullpen some time between the young pitchers to rest.
    This doesn't really matter either - what if both Arroyo and Harang get hit hard ??

    Rotation doesn't matter. Assuming they stay in Cincy the entire season and are healthy for every start, they will get about the same starts. The only thing that might change is if there's an off-day mixed in and Dusty wants to keep his 5 man rotation pitching on the same scheduled day. Most managers will do that because it seems to keep the pitcher's fresh. Then again, usually mid-season or so they will also allow for that extra day off as a refresher.

  15. #14
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    Re: A revamped rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    I thought this was the current rotation: Harang
    Arroyo
    Cueto
    Fogg
    Volquez
    Better check the schedule:

    Mar 31 - Harang
    April 1 - NO GAME
    April 2 - Arroyo
    April 3 - Cueto
    April 4 - Fogg
    April 5 - Harang
    April 6 - Volquez
    April 7 - Arroyo
    April 8 - Cueto

    From http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/....jsp?c_id=cin:
    April 9 - Fogg
    April 10 - Harang
    April 11 - Volquez
    April 12 - Arroyo
    April 13 - TBD

    You tell me?!?!

    My guess for the next 1.5 months:
    April 13 - Cueto (why not?)
    April 14 - NO GAME (Fogg, makes sense)
    April 15 - Harang
    April 16 - Volquez
    April 17 - Arroyo
    April 18 - Cueto
    April 19 - Fogg
    April 20 - Harang
    April 21 - Volquez
    April 22 - Arroyo
    April 23 - Cueto
    April 24 - Fogg
    April 25 - Harang
    April 26 - Volquex
    April 27 - Arroyo
    April 28 - Cueto
    April 29 - Fogg
    April 30 - Harang
    May 01 - NO GAME (Volquez)
    May 02 - Arroyo
    May 03 - Cueto
    May 04 - Fogg
    May 05 - Harang
    May 06 - Volquez
    May 07 - Arroyo
    May 08 - NO GAME (Cueto)

    Harang and Arroyo are pitching every 5th day, that's a gimme. Fogg gets some days off since he's the 5th starter and you give Volquez and Cueto a day off each by mid-May. Looks Good.

    The only way they could tinker with this would be to:

    A) Move Arroyo up a day - he can do this because he's pitched on 4 days rest before with no problems, he's a rubber arm. Still leaves you a problem with moving Cueto up - but the best you can hope for is to move Volquez and Cueto back a day and then Fogg up - they want him in between the young guys - and he becomes your #4. I don't think that's in our best interest.

    B) Fogg gets replaced by Belisle or Bailey. I doubt this happens anytime soon. Then you might want to shake up the 3 young guys. Again, I don't see the need with Fogg being the 5th guy.

    C) Move Arroyo back two days, move Cueto up 3, and Volquez down 2. Yeah, THAT seems plausible...

    D) None of the Above.


    I'm going with D. I think it works good as-is, and Arroyo can shine as a #3. Volquez can hang with any #2 right now, and Cueto is going to overmatch just about every #4 in the NL anyway, at least stuff-wise, and right now he looks to have it all together. Fogg as a #5 MIGHT win half his starts.

    I'd worry more about our offense in general, and against lefties in particular, and let's not even discuss Castro batting 2nd!!!

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009


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