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Thread: Homer watch

  1. #106
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Homer watch

    He's not a 2 pitch pitcher. He is throwing a slider, or as has been reported more of a cut fastball-slider thing, plus the changeup. As for the curve they may want him to get away from it completely for mechanics, or maybe because it was really inconsistent, or maybe they felt he couldn't command it? Whatever the reason, they have basically asked Bailey to remake himself. He's doing his best, too, which should blow away those vapid "uncoachable", "won't listen" cobwebs.

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  3. #107
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Homer watch

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    He's doing his best, too, which should blow away those vapid "uncoachable", "won't listen" cobwebs.
    Don't underestimate the power of vapidity!
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  4. #108
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    Re: Homer watch

    It's silly to ask him to re-make himself. He pitched alot of pitches per inning, but it's my feeling that he would have been able to overcome that with more experience. To ask him to do away with the main part of his pitching arsenal seems short sighted....fear being that he will not be able to raise his K rate back to previous levels. At this point, he doesn't appear to be near as dominant as he was in the past (and a big part of his dominance was dropping that big curve in there).

    IMO, this appears to me to be a silly strategy -along the lines of asking Adam Dunn to swing at more pitches. He is what he is...

    Good teams build on what a player has -they don't try to re-make players. Silly teams ask their better players to be everything and more than what they are -and then they blame the player when he doesn't succeed. If he pitches too many pitches per inning (for a starter)-then make him a reliever and move on.

  5. #109
    We are the angry mob cincyinco's Avatar
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    Re: Homer watch

    Where is this idea that he is scrapping his curveball coming from?

    I haven't heard or read that anywhere but here.

    Its my understanding he's just added the slider and/or cutter or both to his existing arsenal. He might be throwing the curve less right now, but that would seem to me to be because he's trying to refine those other pitches right now. The curve is always gonna be there, it has flashes of greatness. I don't think thats something you just toss into the bin.
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  6. #110
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Homer watch

    The Reds, of course, are being pushed by media and fans to bring up Homer Bailey - right now - and Jay Bruce - right now.

    Baker would like to see them, too - when the organization thinks they are ready. He doesnít want to rush them and abort the progress of two 21-year-old futures.

    The question? Are they ready? Will they be better than what now occupies the roster, where a lot of dead weight squats.

    Bailey is 3-1 with a 1.03 ERA at Class AAA Louisville with 16 strikeouts and four walks in 26 1/3 innings. Iíve been told that Bailey was instructed to pretty much toss his curve ball into File 13 and go with his fastball, slider and changeup. Thatís a tough thing because Bailey always relied on that curve and likes to revert to it when he gets in trouble.

    The main thing, though, and Baker mentioned this, is that reports indicate Bailey has cut down on his pitch-count, which killed him this spring and got his ticket punched to Louisville.

    http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/con...incinnatireds/

    That's from Hal. Don't know how true it is.

  7. #111
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    Re: Homer watch

    Homer hasn't been "remade". Just that they have scrapped the curveball. Hie mechanics on his fastball for example, have not really changed at all.

    Now lets put 2 and 2 together. Homer strikeouts have fallen in AAA when they really, going by his AA time, shouldn't of. Why have they? If it was something physically the curve was doing to his legs, it would make alot of sense. Maybe his mechanics of it were doing some physical damage.

    Coming out here was Homer's MLB bio:MEDIUM-LONG FRAME. GOOD BODY. LONG, SLENDER, BUILD. HIGH WAISTED. LONG ARMS. LARGE HANDS. LOOSE, EFFORTLESS ARM. COMFORT ZONE 93-95 W/ LATE SINK. BALL EXPLODES OUT OF HAND. 11/5 CB W/ TIGHT ROTATION, SHARP K ZONE BITE WHEN OUT FRONT. EXCELLENT MOUND PRESENCE. YOUNG RHP W/ EXTREMELY HIGH CEILING. EFFORTLESS POWER ARM W/ PLUS PITCHABILITY.

    So the Reds are trying to turn him into a fastball/changeup pitcher while mixing in a slider. No wonder he was on the block in the offseason as his development has slowed. Unintended consenquences.

  8. #112
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    Re: Homer watch

    You knew a "less than stellar" outing would happen eventually. No biggie though. 4 ER in 6 innings when you don't have your best stuff is fine. Never underestimate the ability to exert damage control.

  9. #113
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    Re: Homer watch

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    You knew a "less than stellar" outing would happen eventually. No biggie though. 4 ER in 6 innings when you don't have your best stuff is fine. Never underestimate the ability to exert damage control.
    Apparently having 0 ER or 1 ER in 7 innings isn't fine to some people.
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  10. #114
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    Re: Homer watch

    Jocketty on Bailey

    I asked Walt Jocketty before the game if the Reds would consider bringing Homer Bailey up as a reliever:

    ďI havenít thought of him as anything other than a starter,Ē Jocketty said. ďI havenít really talked to anybody about that.Ē

    Bailey is doing what he done the last three years: Dominating in the minors. Heís 2-1with a 1.95 ERA for Triple-A Louisville.

    Jocketty brought up Adam Wainwright in St. Louis as a reliever. Wainwright went 2-1 with a 3.12 ERA in 61 games of relief in 2006. Last year, he was 14-12 with 3.70 ERA as a starter.

    http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/

  11. #115
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Homer watch

    I don't get Bailey as a reliever at this point, even if its just to 'get him in' because its not like the back end of our rotation is doing well.

  12. #116
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    Re: Homer watch

    I don't like him as a reliever either.

    Reds notebook
    Could Homer get the call as reliever? Jocketty says he won't rule it out
    BY JOHN FAY | JFAY@ENQUIRER.COM

    SAN FRANCISCO - Reds general manager Walt Jocketty didn't rule out bringing up Homer Bailey as a reliever, but he hasn't really considered it, either.

    "I haven't thought of him as anything other than a starter," Jocketty said. "I haven't really talked to anybody about that."

    Bailey, a 21-year-old right-hander, is doing what he's done the last three years: Dominating in the minors. He's 2-1 with a 1.95 ERA for Triple-A Louisville.

    Jocketty brought up Adam Wainwright in St. Louis as a reliever. Wainwright went 2-1 with a 3.12 ERA in 61 relief appearances in 2006. Last year, he was 14-12 with a 3.70 ERA as a starter.

    Jocketty said there becomes a point when a pitcher has little to prove in the minors.

    "When a guy continues to do well at that level, yeah," Jocketty said. "There are some things they had him working on. From what I understand, he's done well with what they've asked him.

    "Sometimes you want to make sure they keep repeating it. We're keeping close tabs on it."

    Matt Belisle was making his second start in the fifth spot in the rotation Saturday night. He gave up seven runs (five earned) on 12 hits in the first one. Saturday, he allowed four runs in five innings before he was pulled.

    If he continues to struggle, Bailey's chance might come as a starter.

    Jocketty hasn't seen Bailey pitch at Louisville this year.

    "I was planning to," he said. "I haven't had a chance. I still might. I'd like to see Double-A and Triple-A. I'd like to see (Daryl) Thompson pitch."

    Thompson, a 22-year-old right-hander, is 2-1 with a 0.57 ERA at Double-A Chattanooga. He has allowed 20 hits, struck 36 and walked four in 311/3 innings.

    "He's just dealing," Jocketty said. "It's nice.

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...T04/804270410/

  13. #117
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Homer watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    IMO, this appears to me to be a silly strategy -along the lines of asking Adam Dunn to swing at more pitches. He is what he is...

    Good teams build on what a player has -they don't try to re-make players.
    Bailey's 21 years old. He's years away from "he is what he is." He's still supposed to be learning. That's what the minor leagues are for -- refining mechanics, refining command, AND figuring out which pitches are going to be MLB-grade and which aren't. Guys older than Bailey pick up new pitches all the time.

    The curve ball is a tough pitch, especially the 12-to-6 variety. A good curve thrown too low becomes a bouncer; a bad curve thrown on the proper trajectory is on a tee for a major-league hitter. With less room for error, the only guys who throw a lot of curves in the majors are the ones who have exceptionally reliable command of it, a level of command the Reds' development people obviously feel Bailey won't attain. The slider, if not quite the same hammer, is more forgiving. And he doesn't need a breaking pitch that's "here it is, bet you can't hit it" good. It just needs to be good enough to punish people for sitting on his fastball. I like that he's working on a cutter too, something to add movement and some mph variation from his regular fastball.
    Not all who wander are lost

  14. #118
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    Re: Homer watch

    Bailey's command of his bender never was that bad it should be abandoned. You guys need to get some 06 footage.

    Something has happened here because it disappeared once he got to AAA and only showed occassionally. We saw about 75% of it during his last 3 starts in the majors last year which was a improvement from his original stint. Yet, for some reason, the Reds asked Bailey to totally abandon it this spring.

    I don't know if it was a physically demanding pitch or Bailey got some kind of shellshock, but he isn't throwing it anymore. We could use some inside sources on this one.

    People were so overfocused on Homer's fastball and the command issue they missed what may have been the reason for the struggle, his curve.

  15. #119
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Homer watch

    Maybe I'm pulling this out of nowhere, but I think the Reds asked Bailey to abandon (or at least cut back on) the curveball because it can't be thrown for a strike without hanging too much.

  16. #120
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    Re: Homer watch

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Maybe I'm pulling this out of nowhere, but I think the Reds asked Bailey to abandon (or at least cut back on) the curveball because it can't be thrown for a strike without hanging too much.
    Again, unlikely. That curve was Homer's bread and butter pitch. It never hanged that much. The curve we saw in 2007 was a shell(minus the last 3 starts when we actually got a whiff of it) of what it was in 2006. Something happened. I bet we never find out.


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