Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 110

Thread: LOB the first 8 games

  1. #1
    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,896

    LOB the first 8 games

    10, 6, 15, 15, 10, 17, 12, 16

    Hideous.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    25,267

    Re: LOB the first 8 games

    We won half those games, think of THAT. They will start hitting, I'm not too worried.

  4. #3
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,622

    Re: LOB the first 8 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    10, 6, 15, 15, 10, 17, 12, 16

    Hideous.
    Lineup construction is hurting -- namely hitting Edwin Encarnacion behind Adam Dunn. Dunn is getting junkballed, and I'd be shocked if it was for any reason other than the belief that Edwin is a dead-out at the plate right now.

    If Dunn isn't seeing pitching because Edwin isn't hitting, that's effectively robbing the middle of the lineup of any productivity.

    Time to drop Edwin down in the batting order until he figures out what the hell is wrong with himself (or until A-Gon comes back and Kepp can take Edwin's spot).
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  5. #4
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Rainelle, WV
    Posts
    8,037

    Re: LOB the first 8 games

    The lineup construction is very bad. Patterson is more a 6 hitter than a leadoff hitter. Keppinger is the perfect leadoff hitter. He's not especially fast, but gets hits and gets on base. You follow that with Dunn and then Griffey. Follow that up with Phillips and Votto. Then go to Patterson. Encarnacion, and the catcher of the day. It would look like this:

    1 - Keppinger, SS
    2 - Dunn, LF
    3 - Griffey, RF
    4 - Phillips, 2B
    5 - Votto, 1B
    6 - Patterson, CF
    7 - Encarnacion, 3B
    8 - Bako, C

    What am I missing?
    www.ris-news.com
    "You only have to bat a thousand in two things; flying and heart transplants. Everything else you can go 4-for-5."
    -Beano Cook

  6. #5
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    9,321

    Re: LOB the first 8 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    10, 6, 15, 15, 10, 17, 12, 16

    Hideous.
    Those aren't the actual number of Runners LOB. The real numbers are 5, 3, 10, 6, 6, 8, 8, 11.

    That's a difference of 101 versus 57 over 8 games. The reality is that the Reds have left, on average, 7 Runners per game on the bases. That's about half of what you've positioned.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  7. #6
    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,896

    Re: LOB the first 8 games

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Those aren't the actual number of Runners LOB. The real numbers are 5, 3, 10, 6, 6, 8, 8, 11.

    That's a difference of 101 versus 57 over 8 games. The reality is that the Reds have left, on average, 7 Runners per game on the bases. That's about half of what you've positioned.
    Left On Base as in the number of runners left on base by Reds players when they make an out, not at the end of an inning. It is the LOB total in the official MLB boxscore.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,190

    Re: LOB the first 8 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    Left On Base as in the number of runners left on base by Reds players when they make an out, not at the end of an inning. It is the LOB total in the official MLB boxscore.
    I think Steel's correct. Team LOB is different from the sum of the individual LOBs. It's the team LOB (the number ending innings) that counts.

    Folks on this site are fixated on walks. The Reds have some good walkers. But they don't have enough good hitters. There's not one true top hitter on the team. Dunn is a top power hitter. Phillips hits for power for a second baseman. But the Reds lack the consistent .290 - .310 middle of the order hitters who knock in runs consistently.

    Griffey, even at this stage, is the closest the Reds come to a top hitter. He certainly was one earlier in his career, but now the Reds should be relying on others.

    I think that's why the Reds have these stretches when they don't score and leave guys on. They don't have enough really good hitters.
    Last edited by Kc61; 04-09-2008 at 01:59 AM.

  9. #8
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    8,630

    Re: LOB the first 8 games

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    The lineup construction is very bad. Patterson is more a 6 hitter than a leadoff hitter. Keppinger is the perfect leadoff hitter.
    1 - Keppinger, SS
    2 - Dunn, LF
    3 - Griffey, RF
    4 - Phillips, 2B
    5 - Votto, 1B
    6 - Patterson, CF
    7 - Encarnacion, 3B
    8 - Bako, C

    What am I missing?
    1 - Keppinger, SS
    2 - Dunn, LF
    3 - Phillips, 2B
    4 - Griffey, RF Qualified Cleanup Hitter
    5 - Votto, 1B
    6 - Patterson, CF
    7 - Encarnacion, 3B
    8 - Bako, C

    Two many left handed hitters who struggle and no threats on the bench.

  10. #9
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    South Vienna, OH
    Posts
    4,343

    Re: LOB the first 8 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I think Steel's correct. Team LOB is different from the sum of the individual LOBs. It's the team LOB (the number ending innings) that counts.

    Folks on this site are fixated on walks. The Reds have some good walkers. But they don't have enough good hitters. There's not one true top hitter on the team. Dunn is a top power hitter. Phillips hits for power for a second baseman. But the Reds lack the consistent .290 - .310 middle of the order hitters who knock in runs consistently.

    Griffey, even at this stage, is the closest the Reds come to a top hitter. He certainly was one earlier in his career, but now the Reds should be relying on others.

    I think that's why the Reds have these stretches when they don't score and leave guys on. They don't have enough really good hitters.
    Agreed with all of this... to an extent. We do have ONE consistent .290-.310 hitter who can knock in runs consistently, and his name is Jay Bruce, and he's in Louisville

  11. #10
    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,896

    Re: LOB the first 8 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I think Steel's correct. Team LOB is different from the sum of the individual LOBs. It's the team LOB (the number ending innings) that counts.

    Folks on this site are fixated on walks. The Reds have some good walkers. But they don't have enough good hitters. There's not one true top hitter on the team. Dunn is a top power hitter. Phillips hits for power for a second baseman. But the Reds lack the consistent .290 - .310 middle of the order hitters who knock in runs consistently.

    Griffey, even at this stage, is the closest the Reds come to a top hitter. He certainly was one earlier in his career, but now the Reds should be relying on others.

    I think that's why the Reds have these stretches when they don't score and leave guys on. They don't have enough really good hitters.
    You make a very good point. It's the flaw in the love of OBP--even though there is some benefit in "not making outs", walks only advance runners one base, and given that the best of OBP guys will still make an out 6 out of 10 times, ONLY walking as one's OBP makes for low run scoring. Hits are still the active ingredient in scoring. So scorn not the hitter with a high BA contact hitter---he's the one the walkers must have to have their walks have any meaning-namely, runs. Adam Dunn, with all of his walks, does need to hit more. And I think he will.
    Also, re LOB, I agree what I used was not the common usage. I was just going from the MLB.com boxscores. Sorry for the confusion.
    Last edited by Wheelhouse; 04-09-2008 at 08:14 AM.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

  12. #11
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,296

    Re: LOB the first 8 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I think Steel's correct. Team LOB is different from the sum of the individual LOBs. It's the team LOB (the number ending innings) that counts.

    Folks on this site are fixated on walks. The Reds have some good walkers. But they don't have enough good hitters. There's not one true top hitter on the team. Dunn is a top power hitter. Phillips hits for power for a second baseman. But the Reds lack the consistent .290 - .310 middle of the order hitters who knock in runs consistently.

    Griffey, even at this stage, is the closest the Reds come to a top hitter. He certainly was one earlier in his career, but now the Reds should be relying on others.

    I think that's why the Reds have these stretches when they don't score and leave guys on. They don't have enough really good hitters.
    Excellent post. BA/RISP doesn't seem to matter until the team leaves a lot of people on base. Then poor BA/RISP is known as LOB problems.

  13. #12
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    24,874

    Re: LOB the first 8 games

    The Reds really, really, really don't have many guys that walk. That is very wrong.

  14. #13
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,296

    Re: LOB the first 8 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Lineup construction is hurting -- namely hitting Edwin Encarnacion behind Adam Dunn. Dunn is getting junkballed, and I'd be shocked if it was for any reason other than the belief that Edwin is a dead-out at the plate right now.

    If Dunn isn't seeing pitching because Edwin isn't hitting, that's effectively robbing the middle of the lineup of any productivity.

    Time to drop Edwin down in the batting order until he figures out what the hell is wrong with himself (or until A-Gon comes back and Kepp can take Edwin's spot).
    I can't see lineup construction as being enough of an issue to basically make Dunn useless over the first 8 games of the season. There hasn't even been enough time in the season for teams to safely assume that Edwin is a dead out. It's only 8 games. I'd rather use 2007 as my baseline for assessing a player than use 8 games in 2008.

    Sometimes the Dunn apologists take it to a new level on this board. He has gotten off to a slow start. So has Edwin. They should snap out of it sooner or later, as their track records say they should. If Dunn pops 2 HRs tonight, his numbers will look fine and this point will be moot.

    In addition, if you are right and Dunn is being "junkballed" and that is the cause of his 8 game slump then I would fully expect every team to pitch him the same exact way for 154 more games no matter who hits behind him. If Dunn cannot hit "junk" I would be telling my pitchers to give him a heaping serving every time he is up.

  15. #14
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,296

    Re: LOB the first 8 games

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    The Reds really, really, really don't have many guys that walk. That is very wrong.
    If you hit .230 as a team, I'm not sure if walks are going to cut it.

  16. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,385

    Re: LOB the first 8 games

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    1 - Keppinger, SS
    2 - Dunn, LF
    3 - Griffey, RF
    4 - Phillips, 2B
    5 - Votto, 1B
    6 - Patterson, CF
    7 - Encarnacion, 3B
    8 - Bako, C

    What am I missing?
    Missing -- a pitcher between Encarnacion and Bako, ala LaRussa and Ned Yost. Tuesday night, the Brewers' 8th spot had at least two sac bunts, and their 9th spot was on base almost every time to transition into the top of their order. Of course the Reds could use a #9 hitter like Kendall, who is currently leading the league


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25