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Thread: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

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    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    First, for comparison purposes, here's Ryan Freel's cumulative lifetime statistics from his first MLB game - April 4th, 2001 - through July 31st, 2006 ...
    Code:
    
      G    PA    AB    R    H   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  IBB  SO  HBP  SH  SF GDP ROE  SB   CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS
    +----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+
     388  1533  1325  214  373  69  14  18   85  162   1  221  32   0  13   4  20  107  31  .282 .370  .395  .765
    The above is a pretty good player there, especially since he also added in some decent defensive play in the outfield, including center field. But now here's Freel's production from August 1st, 2006 through April 9th, 2008, and the below stats do also include his 2-5, SF performance from last night ...
    Code:
    
                 G   PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS
                 +---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+
    
    Aug/Sep 06   42 190 162  20  35  8  0  1   6  23   0  41   2   3   0   2  14  5  .216  .321  .284  .605 
    2007         75 304 277  44  68 13  3  3  16  18   0  47   7   2   0   4  15  8  .245  .308  .347  .655
    2008          7  19  17   2   3  1  0  0   1   1   0   2   0   0   1   0   1  1  .176  .211  .235  .446 
    
    Total       124 513 456	 66 106	22  3  4  23  42   0  90   9   5   1   6  30 14  .232  .309  .320  .629
    So Freel, in 388 games prior to August 1st, 2006, was producing quite nicely to the tune of .282/.370/.395/.765 with 107 stolen bases in 138 attempts, good for a 77.5 percent success rate.

    But since August 1st, 2006? Egh ...

    First, that .232/.309/.320/.629 OPS is just an abundance of production right there, and those 30 stolen bases in 44 attempts is an impressive 68 percent rate. Not only has Freel stopped hitting in his last 513 plate appearances, but he's also been costing the team runs with his erratic baserunning.

    So what's going on here? Is Freel taking a similar path as Jason LaRue and hundreds of other players throughout history by mysteriously becoming a bad ballplayer once he stepped over to the other side of 30? Concussions do a body no good; has his erratic play and injuries caught up to him? Juan Castro joined the Reds in mid June of 2006; has Freel been taking hitting advice from Castro?

    The only thing I do know is .232/.309/.320/.629 in 513 PAs isn't pretty.
    Last edited by Cyclone792; 04-10-2008 at 12:08 PM.
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    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    Dead Man Walking was going through my mind watching the game last night.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

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    Re: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    The only thing I do know is .232/.309/.320/.629 in 513 PAs isn't pretty.
    Nope, it isn't. Hopper is a better player.
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    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    Yeah, I had hoped Freel was recovered and back to his old self -time was when he would come in a game you could feel the team's whole energy level rise. It's just gone. He's still an adventure in the field but now that the speed and production are gone it's not entertaining anymore, just bad baseball.

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    Re: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    Maybe he needs to stop drinking. Or start drinking.

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    First, that .232/.309/.320/.629 OPS is just an abundance of production right there
    Sarcasm?

    Seems to be a lack of production, rather than an abundance.

    Hopper is a better player.
    Even with Freel's struggles, I'd take Hopper over Freel due to the fact Freel plays more positions. Offensively, right now they're both teh suck.

    Hopper can bunt, that's about it. Once his BABIP comes down (as it most likely will), his AVG driven OBP will also drop. Hopper's a 4th OF at best. At least Freel can play some IF positions besides the OF.

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    Re: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    At least Freel can play some IF positions besides the OF.
    Yeah, but he plays them poorly.
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    The wino and I know bucksfan's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio View Post
    Dead Man Walking was going through my mind watching the game last night.
    I have to admit, it was for me also. I like Freel and what he brought to the table as far as spark and ability to fill in at many positions (and previously a decent OBP). But he seems kinda "hollow" out there and, as has been mentioned countless times on here, is a redundant bat at best with Hopper also on the team.
    "I'm virtually free to do whatever I want, but I try to remember so is everybody else..." - Todd Snider

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    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Sarcasm?

    Seems to be a lack of production, rather than an abundance.



    Even with Freel's struggles, I'd take Hopper over Freel due to the fact Freel plays more positions. Offensively, right now they're both teh suck.

    Hopper can bunt, that's about it. Once his BABIP comes down (as it most likely will), his AVG driven OBP will also drop. Hopper's a 4th OF at best. At least Freel can play some IF positions besides the OF.
    I'd rather have have Cabrera and Hairston than Hopper and Freel, to tell you the truth.

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    Re: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    I'd rather have have Cabrera and Hairston than Hopper and Freel, to tell you the truth.
    No -- keep Hopper and drop Castro in favor of Hairston. Hairston call play all INF positions. Cabrera for Freel works for me.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    Just thought I'd link the thread with Freel's extension.
    I'm not right much, but I was right about this one.

    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56816

    I'd put a few "caveats" on Freel's numbers too.

    1) Soft hits: many of Freel's hits are of the IF variety or barely make it to the OF. Fine, if you're leading off, but I've lost count of the times that the 8th guy (Larue, Valentin, Ross), gets on..gets bunted over, and a Freel hit can't bring him in.

    2) Pickoffs. It's Vox Populi in the NL that Freel's leads are too large and he can be picked off rather easily. Any value he may have had as a base stealer is lost right there.
    Last edited by oneupper; 04-10-2008 at 09:41 AM.
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    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan View Post
    I have to admit, it was for me also. I like Freel and what he brought to the table as far as spark and ability to fill in at many positions (and previously a decent OBP). But he seems kinda "hollow" out there and, as has been mentioned countless times on here, is a redundant bat at best with Hopper also on the team.
    And Keppinger. With those two covering the utility needs of both IF and OF, I don't know what role RF is filling any longer.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

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    Re: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    I wouldn't be surprised if he was on the magic juice at some point.

    It seems he no longer has any quickness/strength in his bat to fight off those tough pitches for bloops or catch up to pitches. That k rate increase is scary.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

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    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    2) Pickoffs. It's Vox Populi in the NL that Freel's leads are too large and he can be picked off rather easily. Any value he may have had as a base stealer is lost right there.
    I've searched for some pickoff data, but it's pretty difficult to track down. Through watching most Reds games though, you're definitely correct that Freel's pickoffs are a problem. Once you tally up his CS and pickoffs, his stolen base value is pretty much steaming toward the negatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if he was on the magic juice at some point.

    It seems he no longer has any quickness/strength in his bat to fight off those tough pitches for bloops or catch up to pitches. That k rate increase is scary.
    That went through my mind when I was analyzing the data, but I didn't want to say it right away. All that being said, you'd hope to think it isn't the case, but one may wonder if Freel was ever using something during his productive years that MLB now frowns upon. Like RedlegJake said, Freel was an energetic and productive player for quite a bit, but now he's just an overall bad baseball player.
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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Freel since August 1st, 2006

    He does look frail. Maybe it's age. Maybe it's and oversized shirt that never seems to stay tucked in, but he does look like he's been staying away from the weight room.

    I want him out. He's not necessary (especially at the price) with Hopper and Keppinger on the roster.


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