Reds are looking at Piazza?

[Highlifeman21]

He can't play the field anymore -- anywhere. His only role is as a RH PH. If he's on the team, he replaces Javy.

Besides the potential price tag, where's the downside?

[RedsManRick]

Besides the potential price tag, where's the downside?

The downside is that he replaces somebody other than Javy, specifically Votto. If he replaces Hatteberg (not likely), Bako (possible, but not likely), Freel (possible, but not likely), or Hopper (possible), I'm fine. Just shuffling the deck in my opinion. He's a 38 year old catcher with no defensive value and a quickly slowing bat. I just don't see him having any impact, and I think any time he's in the field, his horrific defense will offset any offensive value he brings to the table.

[RedlegJake]

I think he still has plenty of bat left and would be valuable as a 1B platoon with Votto and emergency catcher/PH. Problem is, I'm afraid that it would be Votto down and a Hatte/Piazza platoon at first. THAT I'm against.

[Big Klu]

I suggested this a while back.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...t=65707&page=6

[REDREAD]

We all think of Piazza as a great hitter but I'd be curious to know how well he's actually been hitting the last couple of years.

(That's code for I'd like a rundown of his stats but don't have the time or inclination to do it myself and thought I'd throw it out there as an excuse for anyone who does.)

Small sample size, but I went to a game at Oakland last year and he still looked good at the plate to me. Obviously, no longer a superstar, but good.
Now, I did see him earlier in the year, he may have worn down as the year progressed.

[Wheelhouse]

The downside is that he replaces somebody other than Javy, specifically Votto. If he replaces Hatteberg (not likely), Bako (possible, but not likely), Freel (possible, but not likely), or Hopper (possible), I'm fine. Just shuffling the deck in my opinion. He's a 38 year old catcher with no defensive value and a quickly slowing bat. I just don't see him having any impact, and I think any time he's in the field, his horrific defense will offset any offensive value he brings to the table.

Let's get specific: he has a below average arm, is a slightly below average fielder (see his FP vs. lgFP over his career), and he calls an above average game. The overall impression I get is that he's below average defensively, but not the complete disaster you claim. If he can still hit he'd be a great pickup for the Reds given the RH mess they're in. I can see the Reds trading Bako to the Yanks, who only need a stopgap catcher. The Reds are looking for a more permanent fix.

[Jpup]

I'd rather the Reds not sign Mike Piazza. He's done.

[bucksfan2]

I don't get this. I think this is a horriable decision. He is a FA who no AL team has even taken a shot at. This would be a perfect guy for a Royals or Rays to play at DH or back up catcher and hope to flip before the trade deadline. I don't understand why no one has taken a flyer on him yet and the reds want to bring him in.

[vaticanplum]

Ok, after looking at the stats (thanks guys), my verdict is that he's a worthwhile asset somewhere but I'd rather this team find hitting at a better price. If Piazza could pitch I'd feel differently.

The end.

[Wheelhouse]

I don't get this. I think this is a horriable decision. He is a FA who no AL team has even taken a shot at. This would be a perfect guy for a Royals or Rays to play at DH or back up catcher and hope to flip before the trade deadline. I don't understand why no one has taken a flyer on him yet and the reds want to bring him in.

They haven't taken a shot because of the money he was asking for ($10MM yr. for 2 years). That position may have softened.

[Falls City Beer]

We don't have the DH, pass.

Square peg in a round hole. If Mike Piazza takes the field for the Reds, be prepared for Ringling Bros.

[REDREAD]

Square peg in a round hole. If Mike Piazza takes the field for the Reds, be prepared for Ringling Bros.

I agree that Piazza is not ideal.

However, I look at the alternatives when the Reds play LH pitching.
The current plan involves starting Juan Castro at SS so Keppinger can play 1b. Castro is a mess at SS and is a black hole on offense as well.

This team desperately needs a RH hitter. Piazza is not ideal, but he's basically free (only costs money from Cast).

Now the prefered option for me is for Wayne to package up some of the tweeners that are iffy before their shelf life expires. I'm going to give a list, but I will say that some of these guys will make it and some will disappoint. Just because they are on this list doesn't mean they are destined to stink.

But I'd like to see Wayne shop some of:
Burton, EdE, Homer, Malony, Bray.

Those are guys with some value that are still potentially tantalizing to some teams. Maybe EdE isn't as marketable now.. but the thinking is to trade some of those prospects that the Reds' braintrust feels will be average at best.
Trade them for a RH hitter (or bullpen arm) that fills a need.

Sure, I'd much rather trade dreck like Freel, but we need to be realistic (and I know you are).. No one is going to give us something good for dreck.

[marcshoe]

For a one-year contract, okay. The Reds have a radically obvious problem with lefthanded pitchers. While Piazza's only value is as a rh hitter, this value matches perfectly with the Reds most desparate need.

Piazza won't solve all the problems, but he would help.

Drop Javy and sign him. And while you're at it, hope Ross comes back soon enough that you don't regularly see Piazza behind the plate. 'course the same goes for Javy.

[LoganBuck]

Piazza had .748 OPS versus lefties last year, and a 1.072 OPS versus lefties in 06. He had about the same number of PA. The only real difference is his power fell off.

I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF ROE GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split
+-+------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+
vs RHP as RH 80 233 220 59 10 1 7 31 11 0 41 0 0 2 2 6 0 0 .268 .300 .418 .719 .299 96 97 vs RHP as RH
vs LHP as RH 40 96 89 26 7 0 1 13 7 0 20 0 0 0 2 3 0 0 .292 .344 .404 .748 .368 88 108 vs LHP as RH

The question becomes, was it bad luck, Oakland's ballpark, or Piazza fading to black?

I think I answered my own question the home/away split for Piazza was substantial.

I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF ROE GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split
+-+------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+
Home 41 34 152 141 12 32 4 1 2 15 11 0 22 0 0 0 2 8 0 0 .227 .283 .312 .595 .256 55 66 Home
Away 42 37 177 168 21 53 13 0 6 29 7 0 39 0 0 2 2 1 0 0 .315 .339 .500 .839 .376 123 129 Away

Bring him in.

[CaiGuy]

I like Ross better than Piazza. At least he can throw the ball the second.

When is Ross due back? Could the Reds just wait for him?

That said, though, Piazza could be better than Valentine (who's defense can't be that much better than Piazza's) and definitely is better than Bako (who doesn't seem to bring any value to the team-Who cares about his hot start, look at his career). Valentine is less valuable as a LPH (was he ever?) because of Hattiburg, so replacing him with Piazza could make some sense. That would give the Reds a decent pinch hitting duo.