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Thread: $22.5 Million dollars

  1. #1
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    $22.5 Million dollars

    *Mike Stanton, 3.5 mill owed this season after release

    *Juan Castro, $975,000 for '08, 1.1 mill in '09 (club option/$100,000 buyout)

    *Todd Coffey, $925,00 for '08...increase of $517,500 when extended on April 28 of last year.

    *Bronson Arroyo, 6.45 mill '08 (3.95 mill base + 2.5 mill signing bonus)
    9.5 mill '09, 11 mill '10, 11 mill '11 (club option/2mill buyout)

    *David Ross 2.5 mill '08, 3.5 mill '09 (club option/$375,00 buyout)

    *Scott Hatteberg, 1.85 mill '08

    *Ryan Freel, 3 mill '08, 4 mill '09

    *Corey Patterson, 3 mill '08

    *Josh Fogg, 1 mill ($400,000 guaranteed)


    '08 TOTAL: 22.6 mill

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  3. #2
    Manliness Personified HumnHilghtFreel's Avatar
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    Re: $22.5 Million dollars

    Effective use of an expanded payroll. Take notes, up and coming GM's!

  4. #3
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    Re: $22.5 Million dollars

    Hatteberg would be a great pinch hitter. Not as a platoon player.

  5. #4
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: $22.5 Million dollars

    I still think it's wayyyy too early to be upset about Arroyo.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  6. #5
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: $22.5 Million dollars

    I was fine with Bronson's extension, so I have to remain consistant on that one

  7. #6
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: $22.5 Million dollars

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    *Mike Stanton, 3.5 mill owed this season after release

    *Juan Castro, $975,000 for '08, 1.1 mill in '09 (club option/$100,000 buyout)

    *Todd Coffey, $925,00 for '08...increase of $517,500 when extended on April 28 of last year.

    *Bronson Arroyo, 6.45 mill '08 (3.95 mill base + 2.5 mill signing bonus)
    9.5 mill '09, 11 mill '10, 11 mill '11 (club option/2mill buyout)

    *David Ross 2.5 mill '08, 3.5 mill '09 (club option/$375,00 buyout)

    *Scott Hatteberg, 1.85 mill '08

    *Ryan Freel, 3 mill '08, 4 mill '09

    *Corey Patterson, 3 mill '08

    *Josh Fogg, 1 mill ($400,000 guaranteed)


    '08 TOTAL: 22.6 mill
    http://www.thelotd.com/lance/blog/2008/04/19/sunday

    Lance posted this on his blog on Sunday, and he's talking about money owed vs. dead weight and production.

    I think it is far too early to include Patterson, Freel, Hatteberg, Ross, Arroyo and Coffey on that list. All of those guys can and most probably will either stick with the team all year or be traded (along with their contracts) to other teams, for value. None of the guys mentioned above are in danger of being just dumped.

    Stanton, Castro and maybe Fogg are writeoffs from the bottom line. The Stanton money hurts the worst. I try to remember (when I am being kind to Wayne) that at the time Stanton was signed, the Reds had virtually no bullpen at all, and he was actually a positive acquisition. I think Fogg can possibly stick all year as a long reliever/spot starter. I think he'll get another chance or two before the Reds cut him loose.

  8. #7
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: $22.5 Million dollars

    I guess I should have included that link....seeing as I work for the radio station


  9. #8
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: $22.5 Million dollars

    Josh Fogg reminds me of Kirk Saarloos...
    Last edited by *BaseClogger*; 04-20-2008 at 06:33 PM.
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  10. #9
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: $22.5 Million dollars

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Josh Fogg reminds me of Kirk Sarloos...
    He's not that bad.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  11. #10
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    Re: $22.5 Million dollars

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I still think it's wayyyy too early to be upset about Arroyo.
    Maybe so, but you gotta believe that all these HRs will only turn into longer HRs when the weather heats up.

    I think the guy is a bad fit for the Reds' park.

  12. #11
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: $22.5 Million dollars

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    He's not that bad.
    xFIP disagrees:

    Fogg: 4.99, 4.96, 5.11, 5.25
    Saarloos: 5.49, 4.71, 5.13, 4.94
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  13. #12
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: $22.5 Million dollars

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I still think it's wayyyy too early to be upset about Arroyo.
    Upset? I guess it is a little early to be upset.

    But it doesn't change the fact that Wayne jumped the gun on the extension. I thought it was odd at the time to extend someone when they had 2 years left on their contract at such a cheap price. Too much risk with pitchers who are hitting their 30s with the track record of a middle of the road pitcher.

  14. #13
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: $22.5 Million dollars

    I don't think I've ever seen people turn on a guy so quickly as some have with Arroyo. He's given up a few homers in a handful of starts and suddenly he's dead weight. Let's completely ignore the 450 IP of sub 4.00 ERA ball the past two years and focus on 4 starts.

    He's suffering from his own success, unfortunately. He was ERA lucky in 2006 and regressed to his skill set in 2007. Now people assume after 4 starts that he's in some sort of serious regression.... uggh.

    If he continues to be what's he been, he easily merits the extension. You'd think after the sort of rotations we've had, people would appreciate the value of a reliable starter who gives you a QS 60% of the time. Don't get me wrong, I think we gave up a lot of value considering the contract he had when we first acquired him, but I hardly think it's the sort of contract we should be worried about.

    There's paying $11M for $8M in production, and then there's paying $8.5M for $0 in production (Stanton, Castro, Freel, Fogg). Paying "extra" for somebody who gives you positive production is less than ideal. But paying anything, and using roster spots, on guys who give you zero or sub-replacement production can completely torpedo your chances of competing.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 04-20-2008 at 07:00 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  15. #14
    6 months of heartbreak Bob Borkowski's Avatar
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    Re: $22.5 Million dollars

    I remember when it was announced that Freel had signed his current contract.

    His comment to the press was something to the effect that, "Man, I am being over-paid".

    Hey, I think he might have a point there.
    I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.

  16. #15
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    Re: $22.5 Million dollars

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I don't think I've ever seen people turn on a guy so quickly as some have with Arroyo. He's given up a few homers in a handful of starts and suddenly he's dead weight. Let's completely ignore the 450 IP of sub 4.00 ERA ball the past two years and focus on 4 starts.

    He's suffering from his own success, unfortunately. He was ERA lucky in 2006 and regressed to his skill set in 2007. Now people assume after 4 starts that he's in some sort of serious regression.... uggh.
    What if, by the deadline, all the numbers, including the luck component, point to Arroyo being a sub-average pitcher this season? Is it smart to pay him 10-11 million in 09-10?


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