Will Barry Larkin make the Hall of Fame?

[fearofpopvol1]

Thought it might be interesting to (re)open this can of worms, since the time isn't too far away. I also thought it might make for an interesting debate.

What do you think? 1st ballot? Will he make it at all? Peter Gammons said not too long ago it's going to be a really close call.

I'm definitely a bit biased, since he is a favorite Red of mine, but when you stack up his numbers with Ozzie, I just don't see how you keep Larkin out.

[NJReds]

I think he has to be in.

I think Concepcion should be there, too.

[Benihana]

Yes. An MVP, a WS ring, and 12 All-Star appearances. Not to mention several Gold Gloves and Silver Sluggers. He was the best in the league at his position for over a decade. He belongs in the HOF.

[cincyinco]

No doubt about it. It would be a crime if he didn't make it. He's up there with the greats. Something is wrong if he doesn't get in.

[Always Red]

Larkin- yes, undoubtedly

Concepcion is one of my personal favorites, and I believe he changed the way SS was played on turf. His problem was being overshadowed by legendary figures (on his own team), and also by the emergence (in the 90's when he became eligible) of SS's that could hit 30-40 HR's, which had never been done before.

I always say this, so I'll repeat it now- if Pee Wee Reese and Phil Rizutto are in the HoF, then Davey belongs there, too. Especially Reese, as I think Rizutto does belong in the Hall.

[RedsManRick]

I think he obviously belongs, but I don't think it happens for a few years. I think he starts around 40% and takes 5 years or more to garner enough support. The injuries just robbed him of the counting stats too much.

Add in that Ozzie overshadowed his early career greatness and the power heavy late 90's really overshadowed his mid 90's peak and he was fully under appreciated throughout his career. He'll get in eventually, but it won't be quick or easy.

[Joseph]

Without a doubt. He may, MAY, not make it on the first ballot, but he'll be there.

[REDREAD]

Who else is in his "graduating" class.

IMO, if he's on a relatively nonspectacular ballot, he'll make it on the first vote.
Otherwise, he will make it second for sure.

I always thought the "first ballot" thing was kind of silly anyhow. Either the guy is worthy or not.. Don't see why the writers would make someone wait a few more years to humble them or whatever.

[redsmetz]

Who else is in his "graduating" class.

IMO, if he's on a relatively nonspectacular ballot, he'll make it on the first vote.
Otherwise, he will make it second for sure.

I always thought the "first ballot" thing was kind of silly anyhow. Either the guy is worthy or not.. Don't see why the writers would make someone wait a few more years to humble them or whatever.

Here is who the baseball HOF lists for his class

Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Andy Ashby, Ellis Burks, Dave Burba, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Mark McLemore, Shane Reynolds, David Segui, Robin Ventura, Fernando Vina, Todd Zeile

[coachw513]

First, any discussion of this must include this unbelievable thread/post by Cyclone:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42221

There are 14 players from '08's voting that continue on the ballot due to getting at least 5% of the vote:
Name Votes PCT
Rice, Jim 392 72.2%
Dawson, Andre 358 65.9%
Blyleven, Bert 336 61.9%
Smith, Lee 235 43.3%
Morris, Jack 233 42.9%
John, Tommy 158 29.1%
Raines, Tim 132 24.3%
McGwire, Mark 128 23.6%
Trammell, Alan 99 18.2%
Concepcion, Dave 88 16.2%
Mattingly, Don 86 15.8%
Parker, Dave 82 15.1%
Murphy, Dale 75 13.8%
Baines, Harold 28 5.2%

In '09, I've got to believe that Rice and either Dawson or Blyleven get in along with Ricky Henderson, who I think is the only 1st ballot guy in '09...

Eligible for HOF in '09: Steve Avery, Jay Bell, Mike Bordick, John Burkett, David Cone, Ron Gant, Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Todd Hundley, Orlando Merced, Charles Nagy, Denny Neagle, Jesse Orosco, Dean Palmer, Dan Plesac, Rick Reed, Greg Vaughn, Mo Vaughn, Matt Williams

I'd expect Grace and Cone to get good voting, enough to be factors in 2010...

Now 2010's list of additional players: Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Andy Ashby, Ellis Burks, Dave Burba, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Mark McLemore, Shane Reynolds, David Segui, Robin Ventura, Fernando Vina, Todd Zeile

From this list: Alomar, Larkin, Martinez and McGriff are candidates IMHO...

So, for purposes here, I'm removing Rice, Dawson, Blyleven and Ricky Henderson (saying they get enough votes in '09)...that would leave for 2010:

Lee Smith
Jack Morris
Mark Grace
David Cone
Roberto Alomar
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Barry Larkin

Personally, both in part to the lack of inarguable other players and to his legitimate worth, I think Larkin (and Roberto Alomar) are both 1st ballot-worthy...but I'm more inclined that Larkin gets in the 2nd year in 2011...whenever he gets in I will be there!!


For what it's worth, in 2011 it's Jeff Bagwell, Tino Martinez, Larry Walker and some guy named Rafael Palmeri

[top6]

This 2004 article suggests he will have a hard time:

http://reds.enquirer.com/2004/10/17/red1a.html

You have to remember that he was hurt a lot and that his career numbers sufferred because of that. He also finished his career as a mediocre player on some pretty bad teams. He will also be overshadowed by Ripken, Jeter, A-Rod and other SSs. I would vote for him of course, but all of these factors will (wrongly) detract from his chances of making it.

[dougdirt]

Eventually yes, but it will be well down the road.

[OnBaseMachine]

Absolutely, positively yes. World Series ring. MVP award winner. 12 All-Star game appearances. First 30/30 shortstop in baseball. A career .295/.371/.444 - .815 hitter. There is no way they can keep him of the Hall of Fame. He may not be a first ballot HOFer (though he is in my book) but he'll get in and I'll be the first one there to Cooperstown to watch him give his speech.

I miss watching Larkin play. He needs to be apart of this organization again, hopefully Castellini can get him back here in Cincy where he belongs.

[Hoosier Red]

This 2004 article suggests he will have a hard time:

http://reds.enquirer.com/2004/10/17/red1a.html

You have to remember that he was hurt a lot and that his career numbers sufferred because of that. He also finished his career as a mediocre player on some pretty bad teams. He will also be overshadowed by Ripken, Jeter, A-Rod and other SSs. I would vote for him of course, but all of these factors will (wrongly) detract from his chances of making it.

Actually the "glut" of otherwise qualified shortstops has thinned out.
Jeter will get in, but A-rod's a 3rd baseman now and will be for the forseeable future, Nomar and Tejada have both come down from their incredible peaks and neither will make the hall.
The only SS I could see making the hall from the current era is Vizquel and his qualifications certainly don't blow Larkin away. (Vizquel clearly has more value defensively, Larkin offensively.)

[SunDeck]

I think he's in. Not right away, but he'll get in.