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Thread: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

  1. #1
    Reds 5:11 coachw513's Avatar
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    How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    If the "book" on Dickerson is unreal athlete, great speed, very-very good defense and a poor stick, how would that compare to Patterson??

    With my hope that Bruce will be here sooner than later, is there a great tangible difference between Dickerson and Patterson as a 4th OF-type??

    Not that I'm anti-Patterson...I am just pro-Bruce and wondering the development of our CF in the system...


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  3. #2
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    Re: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    It's an interesting question, but I think with the Reds paying Patterson 3 million, he is safe. I do think though if he continues to suck though that Bruce will come up and push him to the bench.

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    Re: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    From the looks of his performance thus far in Louisville (137/224/196), he could be a LOT worse. At least Patterson is hitting for power.

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    Re: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    I fail to see why Norris Hopper is not being given a chance to win the CF job. He fits more of what the Reds need, a leadoff hitter and a RH stick.

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    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    I think its clear as heck on this team. Patterson's glove is needed, bat him 8th. Anything you get offensively is a bonus.

    Kepp is the most consistent hitter on the team and gets on a lot. Bat him leadoff. Jeff is the type of hitter who could adjust his game a bit to leadoff, meaning he might well be able to adapt his game to leading off by working more counts, drawing a few more walks, all without disrupting his stroke. He's not fast but he's not slow, runs bases well. Pete Rose lite.

    Junior, EE, BP, Votto and are the drivers for this offense - if they hit it won't matter much what order they're in but Dunn is a special case. He is supremely good at drawing walks, when he hits and when he doesn't. I'd bat him 2nd when he's NOT hitting well, and if he gets hot and starts hammering, move him to cleanup where he'd still have an rbi man and protection behind him.

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    Re: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I fail to see why Norris Hopper is not being given a chance to win the CF job. He fits more of what the Reds need, a leadoff hitter and a RH stick.
    Norris is not a plus centerfielder. Patterson is. That's part of it.

    He's got no slugging. If you take away Hopper's bunting for a hit, his OBP plummets. Teams ARE cheating bringing the infield (and outfield) in on him and Hopper doesn't have the swat to make them pay for it. His best outcome at this point is a ground ball that finds a hole. That's a tough sell.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  8. #7
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    Norris OBP is entirely BA driven with no power. He has to hit for a .330BA to have any value at all. BA slips below 300 and his below replacement level. Reds currently have 4 options in CF and none of them are good. The answer is so simple.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  9. #8
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    Re: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    Norris OBP is entirely BA driven with no power. He has to hit for a .330BA to have any value at all. BA slips below 300 and his below replacement level. Reds currently have 4 options in CF and none of them are good. The answer is so simple.
    None of them are good offensively but Patterson is at least a plus defender. That can't be said for Freel, Hopper, or Hairston.

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    Re: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    Dickerson is the same player as Patterson, just much worse offensively. How could that possibly be an improvement?
    Go BLUE!!!

  11. #10
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    None of them are good offensively but Patterson is at least a plus defender. That can't be said for Freel, Hopper, or Hairston.
    there are all rather similar as players and none are a good solution.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I fail to see why Norris Hopper is not being given a chance to win the CF job. He fits more of what the Reds need, a leadoff hitter and a RH stick.
    Hopper is marginally better than Patterson offensively, but isn't even remotely close to Patterson defensively. Therefore, while he is a true leadoff hitter, what Hopper brings to the table offensively is lost due to his lack of defense.

    It's a classic tradeoff.

    IMO, I prefer the brand of defense Patterson brings to the table rather than Hopper, and I can stomach Patterson's lack of offense, since over a full season I see Hopper's offensive numbers going ridiculously South due to his low low low SLG, and his AVG driven OBP. Teams are already taking away his bunt hits and have made adjustments to negate him beating out IF hits, so unless he fixes his LOFT problem, he will continue to be a 1 trick pony.

    Yes, the Reds need a RH stick. Unfortunately Norris Hopper isn't the answer to that question.

  13. #12
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    We don't need power from the leadoff position. We need OBP and maybe move a runner along every now and then. His lack of power doesn't bother me. If the opposition takes away his bunt hits and his OBP plummets then put him back on the bench. But I'm prepared to see him start a few games in a row in CF.

  14. #13
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    Krivsky needs to do one of his magic tricks ala Phillips or Hamilton and get us a young centerfielder and a young catcher. Neither is on the roster nor in AAA.

    All we have are stop gaps but no real solutions on the horizon.

    I know Bruce can play CF but not with a DH on either side of him.
    .

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    Re: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    We don't need power from the leadoff position. We need OBP and maybe move a runner along every now and then. His lack of power doesn't bother me. If the opposition takes away his bunt hits and his OBP plummets then put him back on the bench. But I'm prepared to see him start a few games in a row in CF.
    The leadoff spot is only guaranteed to lead off one inning per game.

    Grady Sizemore spent all of last season as the Tribe's leadoff hitter, and led off an inning less than 300 times in his 730+ plate appearances. Chris Young led off an inning just a little over 200 times in his 600+ plate appearances as the Diamondbacks leadoff hitter.

    Even leadoff hitters need to have the ability to drive the ball with runners on base.

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    Re: How much worse or better would Dickerson be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    Krivsky needs to do one of his magic tricks ala Phillips or Hamilton and get us a young centerfielder and a young catcher. Neither is on the roster nor in AAA.
    I hate to say it, but Drew Stubbs is starting to look more and more intriguing as a prospect. He has really responded well to batting leadoff in Sarasota. He is batting 318/408/455 and is among the FSL league leaders in OBP, SB, R, 2B & 3B.

    How sweet would it be to see that guy pan out as a legitimate leadoff hitter?


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