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Thread: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

  1. #16
    Member durl's Avatar
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    I'm not locked into either trading or keeping Dunn but if the Reds to retain him, there are some things to think about. His BA may not be extremely high but you can be a VERY good player (even a HOFer) without a very high BA.

    Lifetime BA:
    Harmon Killebrew - .256 (never hit .300 in his career)
    Reggie Jackson - .262
    Mike Schmidt - .267 (.961 FP)
    Ernie Banks - .274
    Mark McGwire - .263

    Defense? Killebrew didn't make the HOF with his defense. His FP at 3B was .940. .976 in the OF. Adam Dunn's lifetime FP (so far) is better than Mike Schmidt's lifetime FP of .961. Among OFs over the past 3 years, Dunn doesn't have a great FP but it's comparable to Francoeur, Burrell, and V. Guerrero.

    It can be frustrating to watch Dunn K a lot but the guy delivers very good offensive numbers. That's what he's paid to do.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    Wow, Dunn only hits 40 HR's a year and drives in around 100 runs while walking a ton and playing average outfield. That is so very easy to replace. Lets look on the waiver wire and see who we could pick up to do that. OK, that's kind of thin right now, what about sitting on the bench of another team. No, not many 40/100 guys sitting on a bench. What about on the field for another team. Gosh, not many teams have a dependable 40/100 guy on the team at all. I'm shocked.

    Dunn is a talent, but he is given very little credit.

  4. #18
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    I'm not locked into either trading or keeping Dunn but if the Reds to retain him, there are some things to think about. His BA may not be extremely high but you can be a VERY good player (even a HOFer) without a very high BA.

    Lifetime BA:
    Harmon Killebrew - .256 (never hit .300 in his career)
    Reggie Jackson - .262
    Mike Schmidt - .267 (.961 FP)
    Ernie Banks - .274
    Mark McGwire - .263

    Defense? Killebrew didn't make the HOF with his defense. His FP at 3B was .940. .976 in the OF. Adam Dunn's lifetime FP (so far) is better than Mike Schmidt's lifetime FP of .961. Among OFs over the past 3 years, Dunn doesn't have a great FP but it's comparable to Francoeur, Burrell, and V. Guerrero.

    It can be frustrating to watch Dunn K a lot but the guy delivers very good offensive numbers. That's what he's paid to do.
    Offensive #'s from that era should not be used to compare to players from this era. Except for McGwire, they all played when you were lucky to have 10 players hit more than 25 homers in a season in the majors, or have more than 10 hit .300. Now you usually have ten players hitting 40 homers in the majors each season (some years 50), and ten hit .320.
    A number 2 starter now has a 4.50 ERA, and back in the 60's-80's, that would put you in the bullpen in long relief, if you made the team.
    Totally different game.

    Also, those guys were perennial All-Stars, all won MVP's and were constantly in the MVP voting nearly every year. Dunn has cracked the top 25 in MVP voting twice, and was an All-Star once.

  5. #19
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Va Red Fan View Post
    Wow, Dunn only hits 40 HR's a year and drives in around 100 runs while walking a ton and playing average outfield. That is so very easy to replace. Lets look on the waiver wire and see who we could pick up to do that. OK, that's kind of thin right now, what about sitting on the bench of another team. No, not many 40/100 guys sitting on a bench. What about on the field for another team. Gosh, not many teams have a dependable 40/100 guy on the team at all. I'm shocked.

    Dunn is a talent, but he is given very little credit.
    You forgot to mention he strikes out a ton, is a below average outfielder, and has a lifetime BA of .248. I'll take Bruce in a New York second.

  6. #20
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmith421 View Post
    The Rangers would not have traded their best pitching prospect (plus an interesting low-minors arm) for one year of Adam Dunn. MLB-ready starters with minimal service time are incredibly valuable, and sometimes you have to give value to get value.
    In July of 06, Texas traded 1 1/2 years of Francisco Cordero for 1/2 year of Carlos Lee, didn't they. Actually they traded a little more than that. I know Hamilton is young and cheap. He also carries some injury and drug-usage baggage. I think they might very well have jumped at native Texan Adam Dunn for Volquez and Herrera. Who knows? Maybe 1/2 a year for a team nominally in contention, is perceived as more valuable than a whole year for a team with questions about contending.

  7. #21
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Va Red Fan View Post
    Wow, Dunn only hits 40 HR's a year and drives in around 100 runs while walking a ton and playing average outfield. That is so very easy to replace. Lets look on the waiver wire and see who we could pick up to do that. OK, that's kind of thin right now, what about sitting on the bench of another team. No, not many 40/100 guys sitting on a bench. What about on the field for another team. Gosh, not many teams have a dependable 40/100 guy on the team at all. I'm shocked.

    Dunn is a talent, but he is given very little credit.
    It's amazing to me how often Dunn is bashed by Reds fans, yet so many then clamor to trade him for young pitching. Maybe only Reds fans, using their Pete Rose goggles can see through Dunn's immense production to his inner suck-i-tude.


  8. #22
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fil3232 View Post
    Really? That's the tipping point for you?
    Yep. He's clearly not a "gamer".

    Actually I'm just irritated that I was at that game and left early because my kids were with me and I felt guilty letting them get rained on since neither of them like baseball. But I'm quite surprised and disappointed in how Dunn handled that play, and I hope he is too.
    FIRE DUSTY Never mind. The man is clearly a genius.

  9. #23
    Member durl's Avatar
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Offensive #'s from that era should not be used to compare to players from this era. Except for McGwire, they all played when you were lucky to have 10 players hit more than 25 homers in a season in the majors, or have more than 10 hit .300. Now you usually have ten players hitting 40 homers in the majors each season (some years 50), and ten hit .320.
    A number 2 starter now has a 4.50 ERA, and back in the 60's-80's, that would put you in the bullpen in long relief, if you made the team.
    Totally different game.

    Also, those guys were perennial All-Stars, all won MVP's and were constantly in the MVP voting nearly every year. Dunn has cracked the top 25 in MVP voting twice, and was an All-Star once.
    Good points. 30 years ago, 25 HR was like 35-40 today. How much juicing has to do with that is not understood.

    I don't know if the MVP voting is really an indicator of how good a player is. It's not unusual for stats to be ignored for awards and MVP status. Harang could have legitimately won the Cy Young 2 years ago. Brandon Phillips deserved the Gold Glove last year. Ozzie Smith even started a lot of All Star games when he was not one of the best SS in the league. It can come down to name recognition and Dunn plays on a team that is below most people's radar.

  10. #24
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    Texas kepting calling about Hamilton not Dunn and the Rangers need a Centerfielder more than a left fielder so the Reds couldn't have traded Dunn for Volquez.
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  11. #25
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    i think this team is missing hamilton right now.

    Avg .305
    Hrs. 4
    7 dbles
    19 RBI's

    and only 10 SO out of 82 AB's.

    Im pretty sure that would qualify for best on the team right now.

    He did the same all through pre-season as well.

  12. #26
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fil3232 View Post
    It's amazing to me how often Dunn is bashed by Reds fans, yet so many then clamor to trade him for young pitching.
    Exactly. On this very thread there are posts that (a) say Dunn basically sucks, and then (b) wonder why the Rangers wouldn't trade a top starting prospect for him.

  13. #27
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    Frankly, if Hamilton stays healthy and productive, and Volquez is the kind of pitcher he's shown thus far, this has the potential to be one of the great win-win trades of all time.

  14. #28
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    I don't know if anyone said this or not, but if I remember correctly, the Ranger's didn't want Dunn's $13 million.

  15. #29
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    Quite frankly, once you get past Bruce we have very little starting outfielder depth. Patterson has not shown us a whole lot, so it is debatable whether he could be considered a starting outfielder. Hamilton is traded, Dunn is in his option year, and we most likely will not pick up Griffey's option. There are not a whole lot of quality starting outfielders available in free agency the next 3 years. I just think there is no alternative to not extending Dunn.

  16. #30
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    Re: Could we have traded Dunn for Volquez?...

    the dunn bashers on this board still amaze me. once everyone runs dunn out of town he will be sorely missed(least by this reds fan.


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