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Thread: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

  1. #46
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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    It certainly takes both talent AND luck to make it to the WS. It is possible to go 95-67 during the regular season, and still miss the post-season. But with luck, you can make the post season with a record of 85-77.

    What kinds of luck are we talking about? Pitching match-ups, injuries (both for the Reds and opponents), hot and cold hitters (both for the Reds and opponents), and other intangibles that don't always show up in a box score. I've seen umpiring crews influence entire series. I've seen Gold Glovers, who commit very few errors, botch a simple play in a crucial situation in a crucial game.

    Take the 1999 Reds, for example. The main reason that team won had to do with several pitchers and hitters who had well above career average years all in the same season. Folks like Pete Harnish, Ron Villone, Steve Paris pitched above their career averages. Eddie Taubensee, Sean Casey both had career years that season, and others like Mike Cameron and Jefferey Hammonds had career highs in HR's at that point in their career.
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  3. #47
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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    From Fay's blog

    Communication was a big factor in him losing the job. He regretted not putting things in writing for CEO Bob Castellini. "I communicate on the phone or in person," Krivsky said. "He likes things in memos."

    He talked wistfully of how things may have worked out with him staying as GM and Jocketty as team president.

    "The relationship got better," he said. "Walt and I are 180 degrees different as far as style but we're close as far as baseball philosophy. Walt may be able to do a better job of managing Bob."
    TPC reports?
    Last edited by gm; 04-29-2008 at 07:50 PM.
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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    Not making Billy Beane look bad? My guess is Billy Beane can take care of himself. This comes off as kinda weird on Wayne's part. What the heck?

    He learned all his lessons AFTER he got fired. Where was his insight? Where were his assessment skills as they relate to interperonal skills?

    To me-he comes off as one of those guys that each company has --they are really good at the technical part of the job, but the company usually makes the guy work in a back room cause he's kinda odd and just can't relate to folks. But, if you need a project done -this kind of guy is awesome cause he'll keep it under wraps and knock out this huge project that required a ton of technical expertise.

    Somebody else (Jocketty) has to do the presentation cause this guy has no skill in talking to the public.

  5. #49
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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    --He didn't reveal that A's picked up Rheal Cormier's $2 million salary as part of the trade for Chris Denorfia in order not to make Billy Beans look bad. That is classic Krivsky. He wouldn't throw the other guy under the bus, even though the local media -- me included -- continually mentioned the Cormier deal as one of the Krivsky's failure.
    But Wayne has no problem "throwing Beane under the bus" now?

    Beane looks pretty good in this trade. Sure, the Reds got 2 million, but the A's have a major league player. I'm not in the cult of Deno, but he's better than McBeth.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  6. #50
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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    Calling Deno a major league player might be a reach...

    I dont get the fuss over him..

    Nor the fuss over 2 million dollars and Cormier.

    Big

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    Deal.
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  7. #51
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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    Not making Billy Beane look bad? My guess is Billy Beane can take care of himself. This comes off as kinda weird on Wayne's part. What the heck?
    Yeah. That's just as weird as the concept that the money acquired somehow "makes up" for wasting resources to acquire something that held no value. The guy swapped Justin Germano, who produced a 4.40 DIPS ERA and a 4.48 FIP in 130+ Innings last year, for Cormier in the first place.

    The kind of thought process being used to defend Krivsky's throwing good money away after good money is just plain silly.

    As of today, Krivsky's machinizations have produced Pythags of 76-86, 75-87, and a 2008 projection of 73-89 based on what the team is doing right now. That's wheel-spinning of the highest order at minimum and it's possibly regression at worst. At most, Krivsky is a "caretaker" type who found a couple of diamonds in the rough, but who also has done a lot of damage while wasting a lot of resources on quite a big mound of pricey junk.

    Guys like Wayne Krivsky should never hold GM positions. They're potentially valuable to an organization from a "task manager" perspective (as you noted), but they're tied to what they know, have little ability to innovate, and lack both vision and communication skills.

    The irony is that executives (like Castellini) often hire and/or promote people like that because they're seen as "dependable". And I think Krivsky is just that. He can keep secrets, seems to give a lot of effort, and likely brings his "A" game every day. The problem is that when given a position that requires innovation, vision, and communication, most of those folks wash out- especially when there's a ready alternative (Jocketty) already well known and trusted by the executive in charge.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  8. #52
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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Guys like Wayne Krivsky should never hold GM positions. They're potentially valuable to an organization from a "task manager" perspective (as you noted), but they're tied to what they know, have little ability to innovate, and lack both vision and communication skills.

    The irony is that executives (like Castellini) often hire and/or promote people like that because they're seen as "dependable". And I think Krivsky is just that. He can keep secrets, seems to give a lot of effort, and likely brings his "A" game every day. The problem is that when given a position that requires innovation, vision, and communication, most of those folks wash out- especially when there's a ready alternative (Jocketty) already well known and trusted by the executive in charge.
    Wow. Well said.

    It is no secret that I didn't like the Krivky hiring from the start and caught the devil for it. Krivsky reminded me of so many in my industry. They are the guys who years ago used to wear slide rules on their belts. Intelligent as they can be and good at following a systematic plan, but no warmth. Upper management loves them so much they promote them to the top and when they get there, they lack that one thing that makes a big difference. Sad.

    We saw it early on. He helped the farm system and he made some good deals, but when the real deal comes along--the guy who has the ability to not only make the right moves, or has hte reputation of doing so, these guys lose.

    I hope someday we get over talking about Wayne Krivsky. Wayne is gone, never to return again. And if we're truly Reds fans, we'll look at who is now in charge and either love or hate them on thier own merits. I fear another seven years where people constantly compare Walt to Wayne and speculate on what Wayne would have done. No thanks.
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  9. #53
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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    Call it sour grapes or being overly-cerebral if you want, but the better team loses in about 40% of the games, it really is mostly luck to make it all the way through and win a World Championship.

    In an 8-team postseason, the better team is usually not going to survive.

    Most people can grasp this in the NCAA basketball, best-of-64 tournament. But for some reason, people can't grasp it in a sport where there's MUCH less differentiation between the best and worst teams.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  10. #54
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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Yeah. That's just as weird as the concept that the money acquired somehow "makes up" for wasting resources to acquire something that held no value. The guy swapped Justin Germano, who produced a 4.40 DIPS ERA and a 4.48 FIP in 130+ Innings last year, for Cormier in the first place.

    The kind of thought process being used to defend Krivsky's throwing good money away after good money is just plain silly.

    As of today, Krivsky's machinizations have produced Pythags of 76-86, 75-87, and a 2008 projection of 73-89 based on what the team is doing right now. That's wheel-spinning of the highest order at minimum and it's possibly regression at worst. At most, Krivsky is a "caretaker" type who found a couple of diamonds in the rough, but who also has done a lot of damage while wasting a lot of resources on quite a big mound of pricey junk.

    Guys like Wayne Krivsky should never hold GM positions. They're potentially valuable to an organization from a "task manager" perspective (as you noted), but they're tied to what they know, have little ability to innovate, and lack both vision and communication skills.

    The irony is that executives (like Castellini) often hire and/or promote people like that because they're seen as "dependable". And I think Krivsky is just that. He can keep secrets, seems to give a lot of effort, and likely brings his "A" game every day. The problem is that when given a position that requires innovation, vision, and communication, most of those folks wash out- especially when there's a ready alternative (Jocketty) already well known and trusted by the executive in charge.
    I love it. I was waiting for someone to post something that expressed my thoughts but in better words.

    Well done, as always!

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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Yeah. That's just as weird as the concept that the money acquired somehow "makes up" for wasting resources to acquire something that held no value. The guy swapped Justin Germano, who produced a 4.40 DIPS ERA and a 4.48 FIP in 130+ Innings last year, for Cormier in the first place.

    The kind of thought process being used to defend Krivsky's throwing good money away after good money is just plain silly.

    As of today, Krivsky's machinizations have produced Pythags of 76-86, 75-87, and a 2008 projection of 73-89 based on what the team is doing right now. That's wheel-spinning of the highest order at minimum and it's possibly regression at worst. At most, Krivsky is a "caretaker" type who found a couple of diamonds in the rough, but who also has done a lot of damage while wasting a lot of resources on quite a big mound of pricey junk.

    Guys like Wayne Krivsky should never hold GM positions. They're potentially valuable to an organization from a "task manager" perspective (as you noted), but they're tied to what they know, have little ability to innovate, and lack both vision and communication skills.

    The irony is that executives (like Castellini) often hire and/or promote people like that because they're seen as "dependable". And I think Krivsky is just that. He can keep secrets, seems to give a lot of effort, and likely brings his "A" game every day. The problem is that when given a position that requires innovation, vision, and communication, most of those folks wash out- especially when there's a ready alternative (Jocketty) already well known and trusted by the executive in charge.
    I couldn't disagree more. And I was a harsh opponent of a number of Krivsky moves, especially in 2006. After a tremendous splash it seemed everything he touched turned to mud. Losing Germano and Medlock were IMO mistakes. Making trades for the sake of making trades was a mistake. There was never a reason to get Cantu. No reason to get Cormier. And don't get me started on Joe freaking Mays. A lot of his first year can be attributed to rookie mistakes.

    But his job isn't just about the 25 man roster. He had to change a culture of losing throughout the system. He solidified the organization from top to bottom. Getting the minor leagues under control, having a more structured pitching program will reap rewards for YEARS.

    But since most fans complain about the 25 man roster, lets take a look. Everyone points to his acqusition of BP, and half will say well it wasn't really a risk taking a chance on a former top prospect. Except 25 teams passed on BP.

    Getting Hamilton in the first place was brilliant. Flipping him even more so. This is Krivsky's defining trade, not the one I and so many others have complained about. And yet long term, even that trade looks to be reaping a HUGE benefit: Daryl Thompson.

    Krivsky came into a situation unlike any other GM in quite some time. He followed a guy so uniquely unsuited for the position that it took two years just to get his bad contracts off the books. The only fortunate thing was said GM was in charge during talent rich drafts. He almost couldn't screw it up. (though I'd prefer Weaver over Bailey).

    Just looking at the Reds system, there are blue chip talents at Dayton, Sarasota, Chattanooga and Louisville. And Krivsky is responsible for all of them except Bailey and Bruce. And he had opportunities to trade both. But trading Bruce for Bedard doesn't make the Reds contenders. Krivsky knew that. Trading Cueto AND others for Haren doesn't make the Reds contenders. Krivsky knew that. 2008 was for deciding what to do about the OF. KGJ was likely coming off the books. Dunn may be given a LTC, but he had time for that. Bruce at some point this year will be in Cincinnati. Krivsky knew that. All he really had to assess was where was he getting his 3rd OF from, and he had time for that.

    The Reds could compete in 2008. Krivsky knew that. He also knew that they could dominate the division for the next 4-5 years starting in 2009 with a young IF, power OF, and young high ceiling arms in the rotation with a shut down closer and power arms in the pen.

    The man go jobbed. plain and simple.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    You can't change a culture if your MO is to keep secrets and information. People in the culture begin to take on those same traits (paranoid) especially when it comes to their own jobs.

    Expecting everyone in the culture to rise above their leaders dysfunction is kind of a silly thing to do. Especially when you can remove 1 man and replace him with someone who has the ego strength to lead and not get wrapped up in secrets that have no value.

    There are currently about 6-8 different people who have gone on record to report that Wayne changed -that he was acting odd.

    1 more little thing--and i know i am reaching here--but i always find it odd when an administrator is unwilling to put things down on paper (i.e. memo). It's as if they don't want any of their opinions on paper...that way they don't have to be held to anything. They can change the truth of what happened by stating "well, i talked to employee number 1 and that's not what i recall". IMO, it's gutless and has a sort of machiavellian feel to it.

  13. #57
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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    The Reds could compete in 2008. Krivsky knew that. He also knew that they could dominate the division for the next 4-5 years starting in 2009 with a young IF, power OF, and young high ceiling arms in the rotation with a shut down closer and power arms in the pen.
    Well, there's the crux of the disagreement. Krivsky's machinizations simply didn't set up the Reds as a division contender for 2008. This season always projected to be a transition year because the future is so reliant on the maturization of the higher-level prospects (Votto, Cueto, Bailey, Bruce) Krivsky didn't draft. Any "plan" for 2008 that didn't include an immediate infusion of high-level already-actualized MLB talent (especially in the rotation) was iffy at best and most likely prone to failure.

    While hanging on to prospects like Cueto may bode well for a couple years down the road, the Reds have been in a bad place for a while now. I talked about it during the offseason. And while Krivsky made his share of good moves, some bad moves come back to haunt; particularly receiving nothing of immediate value in "The Trade" and passing on Tim Lincecum. The ripple effects of those decisions were more severe than folks may realize. The former has produced no positive value for the MLB club almost two years after the move and it caused the Reds to throw away more resources to acquire bad pitchers in an attempt to stabilize a bullpen that didn't project to actually be fixed with the move. The result? Miss after miss after miss, and finally a huge outlay of cash to a Closer after all Krivsky could find in over two years of looking was Jared Burton. Passing on Lincecum was a huge gaffe which required the trade of an offensive piece (Josh Hamilton) to potentially help the rotation while the team projects to potentially lose it's most productive hitter (Dunn).

    I'm simply not seeing the progression here. Instead, I see a lot of hole digging, then backfilling, then hole digging, then backfilling again.

    We know that Krivsky was under a "win now" mandate going into the offseason. Yet he's now hanging his hat on the idea that he helped out the farm system (and at the lowest levels).

    Five year plan. Three year contract. Krivsky jobbed himself.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  14. #58
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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Five year plan. Three year contract. Krivsky jobbed himself.
    Yes and no.
    He had his plan and at the start, Castellini seemed on board with his plan. Then sometime in the middle he decided to change his mind and wanted Wayne to change his plan in the middle of it. Thats not jobbing yourself, thats getting jobbed.

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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Yes and no.
    He had his plan and at the start, Castellini seemed on board with his plan. Then sometime in the middle he decided to change his mind and wanted Wayne to change his plan in the middle of it. Thats not jobbing yourself, thats getting jobbed.
    100% agree.

    I loathed passing on Lincecum. That was a difference maker pick right there, but turning $100,000 into Edinson Volquez is beyond brilliant. The trade did set the Reds back, I estimate 3 years minimum. But again, Daryl Thompson puts the Reds in a very nice position. He's looking like a top 10 pitching prospect right now. There is a ton of value in having a guy like that and no place for him on your 25 man roster.

    Krivsky may have added a lot of talent to the lower levels, talent, BTW that has risen steadily. But he also changed how the minor leaguers were taught, promoted and evaluated. Promotions were earned, but no one was rushed. One weakness when WK arrived was middle infielders. Doesn't seem to be a problem now. SP was a weakness system wide. Not a problem now.

    The man did far more good than harm, but EVERY GM does some harm. comes with the title.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Re: Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Well, there's the crux of the disagreement. Krivsky's machinizations simply didn't set up the Reds as a division contender for 2008. This season always projected to be a transition year because the future is so reliant on the maturization of the higher-level prospects (Votto, Cueto, Bailey, Bruce) Krivsky didn't draft. Any "plan" for 2008 that didn't include an immediate infusion of high-level already-actualized MLB talent (especially in the rotation) was iffy at best and most likely prone to failure.

    While hanging on to prospects like Cueto may bode well for a couple years down the road, the Reds have been in a bad place for a while now. I talked about it during the offseason. And while Krivsky made his share of good moves, some bad moves come back to haunt; particularly receiving nothing of immediate value in "The Trade" and passing on Tim Lincecum. The ripple effects of those decisions were more severe than folks may realize. The former has produced no positive value for the MLB club almost two years after the move and it caused the Reds to throw away more resources to acquire bad pitchers in an attempt to stabilize a bullpen that didn't project to actually be fixed with the move. The result? Miss after miss after miss, and finally a huge outlay of cash to a Closer after all Krivsky could find in over two years of looking was Jared Burton. Passing on Lincecum was a huge gaffe which required the trade of an offensive piece (Josh Hamilton) to potentially help the rotation while the team projects to potentially lose it's most productive hitter (Dunn).

    I'm simply not seeing the progression here. Instead, I see a lot of hole digging, then backfilling, then hole digging, then backfilling again.

    We know that Krivsky was under a "win now" mandate going into the offseason. Yet he's now hanging his hat on the idea that he helped out the farm system (and at the lowest levels).

    Five year plan. Three year contract. Krivsky jobbed himself.
    Frankly, "win now", unless you could do as George Steinbrenner always did, was never a realistic goal and the precise "five year plan" with a three year contract was always going to be a fatal mix. I was surprised when I looked up Howsam's record as GM as saw that the BRM really didn't start rolling until his fourth year and really didn't blossom in full until after Morgan, Geronimo, Billingham and parts arrived from Houston in 1972 (and Foster during that same time period). I think Wayne was likely to have had us on a similar path.

    What's done is done - there's no way to turn back the clock and I will hope that we haven't set ourselves back. I know I felt that way shortly after the firing, but I'd like to think that much of Wayne's success will not be undone, while moving the club (and the whole organization) forward.
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