Krivsky Interview on 1530 HOMER

[REDREAD]

Yes and no.
He had his plan and at the start, Castellini seemed on board with his plan. Then sometime in the middle he decided to change his mind and wanted Wayne to change his plan in the middle of it. Thats not jobbing yourself, thats getting jobbed.

Doesn't seem that way. Cast has always publicly said that he wants the team to win and he wants it now. It never appeared to me that Cast was going to have the patience for another 5-7 rebuilding program that might never produce a division title. Didn't Cast say that if the team's W-L didn't improve, heads were going to roll? I think he said that in 2007.

I find it hard to believe Wayne misunderstood Cast's marching orders.
In fact, on his way out, Wayne said he was proud of himself for not trading any prospects to improve the immediate future of the team. Seems like Wayne had his own vision of the Reds which he knew was different from Cast's.

However, if you have any basis for your claim that Cast decided to change his mind in the middle of Wayne's plan, I'd like to hear it.

[TRF]

However, if you have any basis for your claim that Cast decided to change his mind in the middle of Wayne's plan, I'd like to hear it.

How about the man isn't stupid? No big name FA's were within the Reds grasp, the farm was wreck, and they didn't have enough chips to get anyone better than what they had.

I think Cast is smart enough to realize all of that. He wanted to give his friend the job. He should have enough sack to say so.

[REDREAD]

How about the man isn't stupid? No big name FA's were within the Reds grasp, the farm was wreck, and they didn't have enough chips to get anyone better than what they had.

I think Cast is smart enough to realize all of that. He wanted to give his friend the job. He should have enough sack to say so.

Whether it was a realistic goal to expect Wayne to turn the club around that quickly is another debate.. But I think the regression in the W-L record played a big part of it. I don't know what it would've taken to make Cast happy. There were 80 wins in 2006.. I don't know if Cast would've been happy with 82-84 wins in 2007 or not. Or perhaps if Wayne made some win now moves last offseason, that would've saved him.

Clearly, something broke the camel's back 20 games into the season, whether it was the team's performance, personal communication issues, or another request to eat salary to make room for Ross... But IMO, this did not come out of nowhere. As others said, Jocketty coming onboard was a clear warning that Wayne was on thin ice, along with Cast's win now talk.

Anyhow, my premise is that Cast never agreed to go along with a 5-7 year rebuliding plan like Wayne wanted to.

[redsmetz]

Anyhow, my premise is that Cast never agreed to go along with a 5-7 year rebuliding plan like Wayne wanted to.

I'm not sure where you're getting the "5-7 year rebuilding plan" notion from. I don't think I ever heard WK ever say a time frame like that. If Wayne was a victim of anything, it was trying to make the club competitive as he quickly could while not tearing it down completely. Ultimately, I think his legacy will be the players he didn't sacrifice to a "win now" philosophy - something you have seemed to interpret as ignoring Castellini's orders to win quickly. I think the club will be the better for still having our best young prospects.

Added caveat: In all fairness, I believed the team was aiming to be competitive this season, which starting out they have not been, but I still thought they were looking to be in it this year. They may still be, but the first month has belied that.

[dougdirt]

Doesn't seem that way. Cast has always publicly said that he wants the team to win and he wants it now. It never appeared to me that Cast was going to have the patience for another 5-7 rebuilding program that might never produce a division title. Didn't Cast say that if the team's W-L didn't improve, heads were going to roll? I think he said that in 2007.

I find it hard to believe Wayne misunderstood Cast's marching orders.
In fact, on his way out, Wayne said he was proud of himself for not trading any prospects to improve the immediate future of the team. Seems like Wayne had his own vision of the Reds which he knew was different from Cast's.

However, if you have any basis for your claim that Cast decided to change his mind in the middle of Wayne's plan, I'd like to hear it.

This is from an article by Scott Miller of CBSsportsline.com

Castellini spoke of the importance of patience in rebuilding the Reds. He pointed to the Minnesota Twins -- where he found Krivsky -- as a model organization.

One of the keys to the Twins' success, he told me, is their continuity. Smart people were running the baseball operations, and they were allowed to keep doing their jobs even in the lean years. The result was a strong foundation that, more often than not, has thrived.

That to me suggests that Castellini was all about a plan of building from within, which takes some time to get done. Now it seems 2 years in, 'win now' is a must. That, at least to me, suggest a changing the plan in the middle of it.

[Chip R]

That to me suggests that Castellini was all about a plan of building from within, which takes some time to get done. Now it seems 2 years in, 'win now' is a must. That, at least to me, suggest a changing the plan in the middle of it.

Anyhow, my premise is that Cast never agreed to go along with a 5-7 year rebuliding plan like Wayne wanted to.

I think you're both somewhat right. Bob reminds me of the guy who says, "God, grant me patience - and hurry up about it."

Bob was all about patience, as long as the team showed improvement. If the 06 and 07 records had been reversed, I think he might have stuck with Wayne longer than he did. But it happened the other way and the team started out poorly so Bob used that excuse - and the fact that Walt was uinder contract - to bring the hammer down on Wayne.

[REDREAD]

This is from an article by Scott Miller of CBSsportsline.com


That to me suggests that Castellini was all about a plan of building from within, which takes some time to get done. Now it seems 2 years in, 'win now' is a must. That, at least to me, suggest a changing the plan in the middle of it.

My interpretation is that Cast ran out of patience. That's what he said at the press conference when Wayne was fired.

Again

2006: 80 wins
2007: 72 wins
2008: not looking good.. I think Steel said we project to 74 wins.

I think Cast wanted to see quicker progress.

In response to RedsMetz.. I have no idea what Wayne's actual timeline was.
He seemed to be very averse to trading any significant prospects. Whether that is good or bad is open for debate, but that certainly delays improving the major league product in the short term.. From that point of view, he was in a sort of rebuilding mode. Some of his trades focused more on getting younger guys (Bray, Volquez), again, not saying that is bad, but it isn't exactly productive to winning immediately. Long term, it might be better.
So at least some of Wayne's moves seemed to indicate that his horizon for winning was not this year, but perhaps 2010 or later.

I do agree that some of Wayne's moves were geared to improving the W-L record immediately. Sadly, these were the transactions that generally came up short. If he had done better on these moves, he might've still been able to keep his job.

[REDREAD]

I think you're both somewhat right. Bob reminds me of the goy who says, "God, grant me patience - and hurry up about it."

Bob was all about patience, as long as the team showed improvement. If the 06 and 07 records had been reversed, I think he might have stuck with Wayne longer than he did. But it happened the other way and the team started out poorly so Bob used that excuse - and the fact that Walt was uinder contract - to bring the hammer down on Wayne.

I agree completely with this. I still think that Bob didn't really want to fire Wayne. If he did, he would've canned him after the 2007 season.

Instead Cast gave Wayne one more postseason to try and addess the W-L record. Again, I don't know what broke the camels' back (poor start, bad interpersonal skills, or eating contracts this year). Cast had to eat Stanton and Castro this year. Wayne may have asked him to eat another to make room for Ross. The Reds bought some time by DLing Hopper, but there's still another contract that will have to be traded or eaten. I suspect Walt is working the phones hard now, trying to find someone to take Hat, Freel, or Valentine off our hands.

[BCubb2003]

Yes, some of it was for public consumption, and no doubt some it was Castellini trying to convince himself to be patient just a little longer, but from his first words he was about winning and sooner rather than later.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=cin

Of course, winning sooner isn't the same as spending badly and crashing.

[princeton]

If the 06 and 07 records had been reversed, I think he might have stuck with Wayne longer than he did. But it happened the other way and the team started out poorly so Bob used that excuse - and the fact that Walt was uinder contract - to bring the hammer down on Wayne.

Bob Howsam's first team won more than expected, second team disappointed by winning fewer than previous year, then third team started season 9-14.

Cast: "Howsam's gone. Losing is no longer acceptable."

Redread: "I'm afraid to say that some Redszoners are more interested in the success of young players like Johnny Bench than they are in seeing winning teams."

[TRF]

My interpretation is pretty simple. Jocketty became available, Cast hired him and waited for an excuse (no more losing) to make him the GM.

Really, that's all it seems to be.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I'm sure Cast was initially committed to patience and then the team hung in here in 2006 (which was a mirage) and this got him all excited, so he scrapped patience for "win now" causing Krivsky to go out and make "win now" moves (see: The Trade, etc.).

Cast got caught up in it and acted more as a fan than as a owner. Many of us here saw the error in playing for "win now" in 2006 and it thus set back the organization a couple years.

In the meantime, nothing disastrous has happened other than the team playing to it's talent level (which upset a clueless owner) and a few eaten contracts in the "win now" period.

[BCubb2003]

My interpretation is pretty simple. Jocketty became available, Cast hired him and waited for an excuse (no more losing) to make him the GM.

Really, that's all it seems to be.

Yes he envisions big-name management with winning records rather than some other small market's promotable assistant.

[Chip R]

Bob Howsam's first team won more than expected, second team disappointed by winning fewer than previous year, then third team started season 9-14.

Cast: "Howsam's gone. Losing is no longer acceptable."

Maybe you'd be right if Bob was the owner back then. It was a different era then. Perhaps he'd have been more patient back then. There hadn't been the glory years of the BRM then. There was the pennant winners of 61 and the 56 team which captured the imagination of the city but, really, nothing since 1939 and 1940.

[REDREAD]

Bob Howsam's first team won more than expected, second team disappointed by winning fewer than previous year, then third team started season 9-14.

Cast: "Howsam's gone. Losing is no longer acceptable."

Redread: "I'm afraid to say that some Redszoners are more interested in the success of young players like Johnny Bench than they are in seeing winning teams."

I'm sure if Redszone was around, some people would've been thrilled with all the "great prospects" we got for Foster, Perez, etc when the team was dismantled. Dan Drieseen would've been the toast of the board.

Also, I'm sure Bench would've not been treated nicely in his twilight years here. Much like Jr is taken for granted pretty much since he arrived.

BTW, I made that comment about young players because someone said they would not trade Bruce for a guaranteed World Championship in 2008 (hypothetical case).