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Thread: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

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    Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    From Tracy Ringolsby's weekly column....

    The most shocking news in Wayne Krivsky being fired and Walt Jocketty hired as Cincinnati Reds general manager was Krivsky’s claim he was shocked.
    “I did not see this coming at all,” he was quoted as saying.
    Really?
    The most stable thing about the Reds is their instability. Since 2003, the Reds have had two owners, four GMs and five managers, including one interim.
    Jocketty developed a close relationship with Reds owner/ CEO Bob Castellini when Castellini was a minority owner of the St. Louis Cardinals, where Jocketty was GM until last fall.
    When Castellini first bought the Reds, the speculation was he would try to hire Jocketty from the Cardinals, although he eventually decided to hire Krivsky. Castellini did, however, bring in Jocketty as his personal adviser this offseason after Jocketty was let go by the Cardinals last fall, only a year removed from their World Series victory.
    Krivsky was not receptive to the hiring of Jocketty, and the word was that instead of trying to integrate Jocketty into the decision-making process, Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks, which Castellini took as a personal affront because Jocketty was his handpicked representative.
    With the Reds struggling at the start of the season, again, Castellini decided to make a move.
    Jocketty welcomes the job. Yes, manager Dusty Baker is a larger-than-life figure, but that has never been a problem for Jocketty, who began his big-league career working for the late Charlie Finley and in St. Louis never seemed to have any issues being overshadowed by manager Tony La Russa. In fact, the Jocketty-La Russa relationship was so strong, there was speculation the manager might not return to St. Louis after Jocketty was fired.
    The irony for Jocketty is that he gets a second chance to be a GM because of his strong relationship with the team’s owner, which was a burr under the saddle of the man he is replacing.
    Given his preference, Jocketty’s arrival in Cincinnati would have been welcomed by Krivsky and the two could have worked together.
    In fact, Jocketty initially balked at joining the Reds as an adviser to Castellini because he wanted to avoid creating a situation similar to the one that was his shortcoming in St. Louis, where ownership brought in computer whiz Jeff Luhnow, put him in charge of scouting and player development and had him reporting directly to ownership, not Jocketty.

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    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    If true, that would have been an extremely dumb move by Krivsky IMO and one that most people would understand would doom them in their current job.
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    Re: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    This is in line with what I have heard.
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    Re: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    I stopped reading after Tracy Ringolsby.

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    Re: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    Honestly, how could Krivsky not have seen the hiring of Walt Jocketty as the beginning of the doomsday countdown?

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    Re: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    If true, that would have been an extremely dumb move by Krivsky IMO and one that most people would understand would doom them in their current job.
    Yup, I'm with you there.

    It's difficult at best to know if this is true, but the irony here is it's the same theme we heard when Almaraz was run out of town. Almaraz's biggest gripe, at least the biggest he stated to the media, was that Krivsky shut him out of high level talks.

    One thing is for sure: if this did take place, then it takes the "weirdness" of the timing out of the equation. Because if this is true, then it's plausible that Castellini acted not long after he got wind of what was going on.
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    Re: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Honestly, how could Krivsky not have seen the hiring of Walt Jocketty as the beginning of the doomsday countdown?

    I could care less if Krivsky saw it coming. And I could care less if Krivsky took his 'vulture-in-waiting' into his inner circle. The only relevant question is 'was it meritorious' to fire Krivsky barely two years after taking over perhaps the most dysfunctional franchise in the NL? Of course, given Krivsky's vast improvement of the talent base throughout the organization, the answer is a resounding 'no.' If Bob Castellini wants to observe an unintelligible buffoon in terms of organizational design, and public relations, he need look no further than the mirror each morning.

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    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    I could care less if Krivsky saw it coming. And I could care less if Krivsky took his 'vulture-in-waiting' into his inner circle. The only relevant question is 'was it meritorious' to fire Krivsky barely two years after taking over perhaps the most dysfunctional franchise in the NL? Of course, given Krivsky's vast improvement of the talent base throughout the organization, the answer is a resounding 'no.' If Bob Castellini wants to observe an unintelligible buffoon in terms of organizational design, and public relations, he need look no further than the mirror each morning.
    Regardless, anyone who has worked in the business world and has had to deal with "outside management consultants" brought in by higher ups knows that if they deny access to those "outside management consultants" they'll likely loose their job.
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    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    I also don't think it's very fair to call Jocketty a "vulture in waiting", even if I think Wayne did a pretty good job. I'm going to give Walt the benefit of the doubt as I don't have any reason to believe he was actively angling for Wayne's job.
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    Re: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Regardless, anyone who has worked in the business world and has had to deal with "outside management consultants" brought in by higher ups knows that if they deny access to those "outside management consultants" they'll likely loose their job.
    Yep. Nothing to gain by shutting them out. Make them your best buddies, like in "Office Space".
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    Re: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Regardless, anyone who has worked in the business world and has had to deal with "outside management consultants" brought in by higher ups knows that if they deny access to those "outside management consultants" they'll likely loose their job.
    Exactly. Stormy, I like the job Krivsky did too, and am sad to see him go. However you have to have knowledge of the business world as well, and the politics that go on behind them. If you don't play that game, you get burned. He may have done a good job, but he certainly didn't endear himself to those working with him, or more importantly those in charge. In that scenario, as soon as things don't start going your way, you're going to lose your job- every single time in every single industry. That Wayne didn't have the smarts to play this game was his undoing, coupled with the presence of the 500 lb. gorilla named Walt.

    I believe something similar happened with DePodesta in LA, and he hasn't been hired since (despite engineering some great baseball moves.)
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    Re: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I also don't think it's very fair to call Jocketty a "vulture in waiting", even if I think Wayne did a pretty good job. I'm going to give Walt the benefit of the doubt as I don't have any reason to believe he was actively angling for Wayne's job.
    You're right on both posts (ditto for Benihana). However, the vulture-in-waiting allusion is directed at Castellini's aspirations of Walt, not Jocketty's angling. Obviously, the second Jocketty arrived, Wayne was a lame duck, and a firing 22 games into the season confirms that. Castellini is impetuous, and doesn't know the first thing about baseball or contention. Fortunately, we have an astute guide in Walt. Nonethless, Krivsky was shafted, and we have no idea if the post-firing spin about his behavior has any accuracy at all? Agreed?

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    Re: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Krivsky was shafted, and we have no idea if the post-firing spin about his behavior has any accuracy at all? Agreed?
    I dunno...

    So far it's the only explanation for things that fits the facts.
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    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    You're right on both posts (ditto for Benihana). However, the vulture-in-waiting allusion is directed at Castellini's aspirations of Walt, not Jocketty's angling. Obviously, the second Jocketty arrived, Wayne was a lame duck, and a firing 22 games into the season confirms that. Castellini is impetuous, and doesn't know the first thing about baseball or contention. Fortunately, we have an astute guide in Walt. Nonethless, Krivsky was shafted, and we have no idea if the post-firing spin about his behavior has any accuracy at all? Agreed?
    I see what you're saying but I just don't have enough information to really know one way or the other and it's quite likely I never will.
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    Re: Columnist: Krivsky shut Jocketty out of high-level talks

    This is the first explanation that makes any sense. I imagine it was the first Castellini had heard about it and he blew up. It totally explains the firing.

    Like One Upper said, you embrace these guys. Give them total access unless you're doing something underhanded, which I don't think Krivsky was. Looks like Wayne might have shot himself in the foot.

    Anyway, it's a shame for all parties involved.
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