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Thread: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

  1. #1
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    Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    Many threads and posts have focused on Baker's lineup construction.

    But here are the latest top 9 Reds' hitters, ranked according to OPS:



    Paul Bako 0.954
    Edwin Encarnación 0.930
    Joey Votto 0.904
    Jerry Hairston Jr. 0.833
    Jeff Keppinger 0.801
    Corey Patterson 0.792
    Brandon Phillips 0.760
    Ken Griffey Jr. 0.752
    Adam Dunn 0.724

    So, unless Dunn can pitch, he doesn't make the starting team. Obvious hyperbole here, in that Griffey just barely beats him out, that Hairston has so many fewer plate appearances, and that Dunn's currently hitting way below his expected normal mashing.

    But, seriously, it makes you wonder if the Reds' record would be any better if Hairston, instead of Castro, (and a healthy Ross, instead of Hopper) had come north with the team from ST. Hairston and Ross are not all-stars, but they might add just enough right-handed quality at bats.

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    Quote Originally Posted by Far East View Post
    Many threads and posts have focused on Baker's lineup construction.

    But here are the latest top 9 Reds' hitters, ranked according to OPS:



    Paul Bako 0.954
    Edwin Encarnación 0.930
    Joey Votto 0.904
    Jerry Hairston Jr. 0.833
    Jeff Keppinger 0.801
    Corey Patterson 0.792
    Brandon Phillips 0.760
    Ken Griffey Jr. 0.752
    Adam Dunn 0.724

    So, unless Dunn can pitch, he doesn't make the starting team. Obvious hyperbole here, in that Griffey just barely beats him out, that Hairston has so many fewer plate appearances, and that Dunn's currently hitting way below his expected normal mashing.

    But, seriously, it makes you wonder if the Reds' record would be any better if Hairston, instead of Castro, (and a healthy Ross, instead of Hopper) had come north with the team from ST. Hairston and Ross are not all-stars, but they might add just enough right-handed quality at bats.
    Hairston is this week's Corey Patterson. He'll fall back to Earth.

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    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    If Dusty Baker starts Hairston everyday over Adam Dunn, I will find another team to watch.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

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    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    The name at the top of the list should tell you that this isn't a real-world ranking of the Reds' top offensive players. One month from now the list will look radically different.

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    Re: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    Paul Bako 0.954
    Edwin Encarnación 0.930
    Joey Votto 0.904
    Jerry Hairston Jr. 0.833
    Jeff Keppinger 0.801
    Corey Patterson 0.792
    Brandon Phillips 0.760
    Ken Griffey Jr. 0.752
    Adam Dunn 0.724
    Remove Hairston from the list, and there's your starting 8 position players. "Platoon" Ross and Bako, and the other 7 remain unchanged.

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    Re: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    Quote Originally Posted by Far East View Post
    But, seriously, it makes you wonder if the Reds' record would be any better if Hairston, instead of Castro, (and a healthy Ross, instead of Hopper) had come north with the team from ST. Hairston and Ross are not all-stars, but they might add just enough right-handed quality at bats.

    Well,since Ross was injured,nothing anyone could do.

    So the only real difference is Hairston vs. Castro.

    Since over his lifetime, Hairston has been almost "Castro bad", it really won't have made much difference.

  8. #7
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    It's WHERE Dusty bats them in that order that confuses me.

    Patterson has justed raised his OB% to an impressive .286, so his leading off is secure for awhile.

    But EE has really came around with the bat, and he's batting 7th with a .379 OB% and .544 SLG%.

    Dunn is really struggling (and pressing) right now. His SLG% is a frightful .342, but he continues to get on base (.381). I still believe he could be more beneficial to us right now, because he's getting on base, if they moved him up in this batting order. Dunn is going to come around IMO.

    But that's not gonna happen after they scored lots of runs in these last two games vs SF.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  9. #8
    SERP deep cover ops WebScorpion's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    Yea, I think Dusty read this thread cause he started all those top guys except he substituted Freel for Griffey. They scored 10 runs, so I wonder if Griffey and/or Dunn will ever crack the lineup again.

    "Okay you guys, pair up in threes!" --Yogi Berra

  10. #9
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    Quote Originally Posted by Far East View Post
    Many threads and posts have focused on Baker's lineup construction.

    But here are the latest top 9 Reds' hitters, ranked according to OPS:



    Paul Bako 0.954
    Edwin Encarnación 0.930
    Joey Votto 0.904
    Jerry Hairston Jr. 0.833
    Jeff Keppinger 0.801
    Corey Patterson 0.792
    Brandon Phillips 0.760
    Ken Griffey Jr. 0.752
    Adam Dunn 0.724

    So, unless Dunn can pitch, he doesn't make the starting team. Obvious hyperbole here, in that Griffey just barely beats him out, that Hairston has so many fewer plate appearances, and that Dunn's currently hitting way below his expected normal mashing.

    But, seriously, it makes you wonder if the Reds' record would be any better if Hairston, instead of Castro, (and a healthy Ross, instead of Hopper) had come north with the team from ST. Hairston and Ross are not all-stars, but they might add just enough right-handed quality at bats.
    Depends on if your going by OBP or OPS

    I think that their offense would have scored more if they had been placed in the lineup that opitimized their skill history, and perhaps that would have led to more W's. I don't think Patterson or Hairston brings much to the Reds..

    The guys at the bottom of these are getting hurt by a lack of AB and playing time, on the other hand, Patterson is at his norms.

    Code:
    OBP
    Paul Bako - .411   Career - .309 
    Jerry Hairston Jr. - .391   Career - .325   
    Adam Dunn -  .381   Career - .381 
    Edwin Encarcion - .379   Career - .350  
    Jeff Keppinger - .364   Career - .364  
    Ken Griffey Jr. - .330   Career - .373 
    Joey Votto - .319   Career - .346 
    Ryan Freel - .333   Career - .358  
    Norris Hopper - .321   Career - .375  
    Scott Hatteberg - .308   Career - .362 
    Brandon Phillips - .321  Career - .307 
    Javier Valetin - .276   Career - .308 
    Corey Patterson - .286   Career - .297 
    
    OPS
    
    Paul Bako .958  Career - .632
    Edwin Encarcion .923  Career - .808 
    Joey Votto .869  Career - .906 
    Jerry Hairston Jr. .846  Career - .683 
    Jeff Keppinger .809  Career - .805 
    Corey Patterson .786  Career - .713
    Brandon Phillips .841  Career - .727 
    Ken Griffey Jr. - .752  Career - .925
    Adam Dunn - .724  Career - .896 
    Ryan Freel - .695  Career - .734 
    Norris Hopper - .561  Career - .760 
    Javier Valentin - .535  Career - .707 
    Scott Hatteberg - .533  Career - .773
    Last edited by Spring~Fields; 04-27-2008 at 10:22 PM.

  11. #10
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post

    But that's not gonna happen after they scored lots of runs in these last two games vs SF.
    Nope not gonna happen, it was all Dusty, Zito's struggles had nothing to do with it. It was his lineup for sure.

  12. #11
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    while OPS is a nice tool for a rough measurement, there are better routes to finding the Reds best hitters. One point of OB% does not equal one point of SLG%...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  13. #12
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    Re: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    Paul Bako 0.954 8.94
    Edwin Encarnación 0.930 7.43
    Joey Votto 0.904 5.72
    Jerry Hairston Jr. 0.833 6.29 (in 30 glorious AB's)
    Jeff Keppinger 0.801 5.16
    Corey Patterson 0.792 4.98
    Brandon Phillips 0.760 5.45
    Ken Griffey Jr. 0.752 4.65
    Adam Dunn 0.724 5.32

    According to RC/27.

    I also second GAC's notion. Bump Dunn up to the two spot, a spot where has had career success and put that .380 OBP to good use.

  14. #13
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    defense? baserunning?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  15. #14
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    Quote Originally Posted by missionhockey21 View Post
    Paul Bako 0.954 8.94
    Edwin Encarnación 0.930 7.43
    Joey Votto 0.904 5.72
    Jerry Hairston Jr. 0.833 6.29 (in 30 glorious AB's)
    Jeff Keppinger 0.801 5.16
    Corey Patterson 0.792 4.98
    Brandon Phillips 0.760 5.45
    Ken Griffey Jr. 0.752 4.65
    Adam Dunn 0.724 5.32

    According to RC/27.

    I also second GAC's notion. Bump Dunn up to the two spot, a spot where has had career success and put that .380 OBP to good use.
    Yes, that should have happened some time ago for the reasons you state, and perhaps they would have actually pitched to Dunn once in awhile.

  16. #15
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Is Dusty playing the best 8 position players?

    P/PA
    Jerry Hairston Jr. - 4.26
    Adam Dunn - 4.25
    Javier Valentin - 4.21
    Edwin Encarcion - 3.98
    Ken Griffey Jr. - 3.86
    Paul Bako - 3.83
    Ryan Freel - 3.80
    Brandon Phillips - 3.58
    Corey Patterson - 3.58
    Jeff Keppinger - 3.54
    Scott Hatteberg - 3.51
    Joey Votto - 3.42
    345 Norris Hopper - 2.67

    RC
    Edwin Encarcion - 17.4
    Jeff Keppinger - 13.9
    Paul Bako - 13.4
    Ken Griffey Jr. - 12.4
    Brandon Phillips - 12.3
    Adam Dunn - 12.0
    Joey Votto - 10.9
    Corey Patterson - 10.7
    Ryan Freel - 4.0
    Jerry Hairston Jr. - 2.9
    Scott Hatteberg - 2.5
    Norris Hopper - 2.5
    Javier Valentin - 2.1

    RC27
    Paul Bako - 9.06
    Edwin Encarcion - 7.45
    Joey Votto - 6.14
    Jerry Hairston Jr. - 5.94
    Adam Dunn - 5.32
    Jeff Keppinger - 4.93
    Corey Patterson - 4.80
    Ken Griffey Jr. - 4.65
    Brandon Phillips - 4.43
    Norris Hopper - 3.27
    Ryan Freel - 3.21
    Javier Valetin - 2.79
    Scott Hatteberg - 2.44


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