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Thread: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

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    Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?


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    Member Nasty_Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

    This really isn't anything new. We knew that if the Reds were in contention both players would be here until the end of the season, if not they would try to move them. I still think the Reds should resign Dunn, but they should try to trade Jr around the deadline.

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    Re: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

    Agree 100% on Junior. His time is up, and he won't EVER be as tradeable as he is now. Every day it only gets worse.

    Dunn should be extended, and HOPEFULLY this was part of the WK-Castellini problem, which can be solved now with Jocketty in tow. Castellini seemed to gush over this guy after their dinner date. Why it's taken this long is beyond me, and smells of WK trying to hedge his bets, when Cast seemingly wanted to go all-in.

    With all the rest of the CORE young and relatively inexpensive - BP, EE, Votto, Kepp, Cueto, Voltar, and Bruce/Bailey in the wings - you can EASILY afford to extend a 28 year old Dunn for 4-5 years and not even flinch, ESPECIALLY with Griffey's Salary off the books.

    PEACE

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    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

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    Re: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

    Its time for griffey to go. Bring in bruce.

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    Re: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

    I'm ready for both to go. Bring up Bruce. And the other $25 million + saved can be used for 2 other OFers.

    If we're not in contention, I fully expect both to be gone and either the OF be filled by those trades or in the offseason free agency period.
    Who's on first?

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    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

    One will go and one will stay. IMO Dunn will be the one that stays because he's more productive right now and younger.
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    Re: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Degenerate39 View Post
    One will go and one will stay. IMO Dunn will be the one that stays because he's more productive right now and younger.
    Younger maybe.......
    Who's on first?

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    Re: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

    I would like to see both go.I really hate the shift every team employs against them and it working to
    perfection

    P.S. Throw in Grande who keeps mentioning the shift.
    The Hunt for a Reds October.

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    Re: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

    I think this organization is in a Jackpot-Win a Free Ticket (aka win-win).

    In other words, if he trade Dunn, we get rid of his contract for some players which is the jackpot.

    If we just let him walk at the end of the year, at least we get his salary to play with.

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    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChatterRed View Post
    Younger maybe.......
    Honestly what is it with all the Dunn bashing. If anyone should be blamed for the Reds losing it's Griffey Jr. not Adam Dunn. I hate to say it because I've loved watching Griffey play since I was about 8. Out of the 8 years that Griffey's been here he's stayed heathly the first season he was here? And for the most part last year and I hope he stays healthy this year. But the Reds used that money on Griffey when they could've spent it on pitching. Everyone says the Reds haven't won with Dunn but Griffey's been here longer and he may be a big cause they havent won.
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    Re: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

    For what its worth on his show today, Tracy Jones is saying both may be gone a lot sooner that what people may think.

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    Re: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by bgwilly31 View Post
    Its time for griffey to go. Bring in bruce.
    Last week, someone called in WLW saying Bruce has been splitting time playing left and right field thinking Griffey or Dunn may go to open up a spot for him.
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    Re: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

    Not sure what they will do, but I would keep Griffey and trade Dunn.

    Trading Dunn means Bruce is in left, and hopefully batting either 3rd or 4th. Griffey is still productive and is much better in the field than Dunn, but just not the best option for batting 3rd. I think he would make a much better #5 hitter than Dunn.

    Dunn is done in my opinion. He never was as productive as his stats mislead people, and he has gotten worst in key areas every year for the past four years.

    People always bring up the 40 HRs, 100 RBI's and 100 runs scored that Dunn produces. That is good, but he is the worst at run production of any active 40 HR hitter. (actually Soriano had a slightly worse 40 home run year, but that was a lead off hitter.) The average RBI's for a recent 40 HR (between 40 and 43 HR) hitter is 125 RBI's. Dunn averages 100 RBI's. The average runs scored is 110. Dunn averages 103. Dunn produced 32 runs a year less than the average 40 HR hitter. That is a lot. Some of that is the team around him, but that can't explain such a big difference.

    The other stats that are telling are his stats in crucial situations. They have been on the steady decline and are terrible this year. Here are the numbers:

    Code:
      	
    	     2 out RISP		          Late and Close             With Two Strikes
    2004	.264  .459  .556   1.015	.323  .417  .720  1.137	   .151  .270  .284  .554
    2005	.231  .512  .481    .993	.200  .341  .480  .821	   .160  .273  .339  .611
    2006	.246  .410  .554    .963	.237  .389  .474  .863	   .127  .246  .288  .534
    2007	.254  .472  .381    .853	.241  .355  .456  .811	   .153  .291  .295  .586
    2008	.000  .429  .000    .429  	.196  .379  .353  .732     .125  .271  .225  .496
    A clear steady decline. Actually it is very similar to another slugger, Andrew Jones, who also got a lot of walks and not a lot of hits. Probably the result of pitchers noticing that they can pitch to these guys as long as they don't make a mistake.

    I put the two strikes stats to show how weak Dunn is with two strikes. Nearly, if not all middle of the lineup run producers have at least a .600 OPS with two strikes and many have a .700 OPS. Dunn is over 100 points below the average of 3-5 hitters. His numbers with two strikes are closer to Castro's then they are to most 3-5 hitters.

    All that and his horrible defense is why I say trade Dunn and get Bruce in LF batting 3rd or 4th everyday.

  15. #14
    Attack Cat! OUReds's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

    The sample size for last year's close and late was a whopping 79 ABs, for 2 out RISP it's all of 63. This year the sample is small enough to be laughable. You conclusions about a general decline based on those numbers are wildly premature.

    I suppose he might be the least productive 100 RBI 40 HR player in baseball, but that puts him at the bottom of a very small and exclusive list.

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    Re: Trade Rumor: Dunn and Griffey to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by OUReds View Post
    The sample size for last year's close and late was a whopping 79 ABs, for 2 out RISP it's all of 63. This year the sample is small enough to be laughable. You conclusions about a general decline based on those numbers are wildly premature.
    and 757690 also TOTALLY disregards place in the lineup (e.g. 5) and other factors - such as NO PROTECTION which increases his OBP (especially in "2 out RISP" situations, because pitchers will pitch around him) but decreases production.

    Runs Scored? SERIOUSLY? Now you're dumping on him because OTHER PEOPLE CAN'T DRIVE HIM IN?!?! SERIOUSLY? SERIOUSLY?!?!?!?
    100 runs is nice, but HARDLY within his control. I don't think many people point to his 100 runs. They point to his 100-110+ BB's ever year.

    I also fail to see how "2 Strikes" is considered a "Critical Situation". That's total BS. I think RISP and "Late and Close" are just a TAD more "Critical". In that regard, his numbers have shown a clear and steady INCREASE since his "blip" year in 2005, in his AVERAGE, which is what ALL of the Dunn bashers bash on most - they want him to HIT more and WALK less.
    And, with all of that said, he's had ONE year of sub .950 OPS with RISP and 2 outs over this span. ONE. This also is the year he set his CAREER BEST in RBI's and second best BATTING AVERAGE (.264 v .266 in 2004). SO, he's cutting down on the power, but getting more HITS, and driving more RUNS IN. Isn't that what you bashers want?!?!?!?

    Why don't you focus on more IMPORTANT things - like putting him in a better POSITION to:

    a) get more AB"s - which will get him on base more. More RBI, more HR, more Runs, more EVERYTHING.

    b) put better hitters in front of him, with more OBP - which leads to more RBI opportunities. PROBABLY putting the league leader in GIDP's isn't going to help that much.

    c) put better hitters behind him - which will give him more protection, give him better pitches to see, and - gasp - get him DRIVEN IN MORE (i.e. RUNS SCORED).

    No, let's focus on annual deviations in day/night splits on the road, versus left handers in the 4th inning of blowouts. And, let's bat him lower in the lineup because heaven forbid we want him to get more at bats then guys who can't OBP over .300.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009


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