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Thread: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

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  1. #1
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Some interesting views from impartial observers. I think they're dead-on on a lot of things, particularly in who deserves credit for the current bright spots on the team. (my friend's e-mail pops up as the first question...big Baseball America fan)

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/media/podcasts/ (the 4-25 podcast)

    Love the line "...but the Cardinals DO more with their tradition." Also love the comparison between pitchers in the Reds' farm system circa 2004 and the drummer from Spinal Tap
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  2. #2
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    "The Reds are in the best shape they've been in in a decade." Basically this is true... maybe 8 years, rather than a decade, but basically true.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  3. #3
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Interesting point made by John Manuel. The Reds' media reach has dwindled, perhaps, because WLW is "lunatic fringe radio."

    J.J. Cooper - There was a time where being a Reds pitching prospect was being like the drummer in Spinal Tap.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  4. #4
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Candor galore here...

    "Wayne Krivsky didn't do anything where he deserved to be fired."

    "Walt Jocketty becoming available in St. Louis is what got him fired."

    Rationale for The Trade... "If we get Kearns away from Adam Dunn, maybe Dunn does better?"

    Hamilton for Volquez "was a win-win."
    /r/reds

  5. #5
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    Hamilton for Volquez "was a win-win."
    The thing that bothered me at the time and still does is this: could we have gotten Volquez for Dunn?
    .

  6. #6
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    The thing that bothered me at the time and still does is this: could we have gotten Volquez for Dunn?
    Very doubtful. 1 year of a slugger making big bucks, or 5 potential years of a better all around hitter with good defense to boot for chump change.

  7. #7
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    The thing that bothered me at the time and still does is this: could we have gotten Volquez for Dunn?
    No chance whatsoever.
    Go Gators!

  8. #8
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Todd Frazier is another guy who could eventually be a left fielder if Edwin pans out at third base. He's got the bat to play just about anywhere.

  9. #9
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    The thing that bothered me at the time and still does is this: could we have gotten Volquez for Dunn?
    I don't know. The story is that the Rangers approached Wayne for Hamilton. He was their big target. Wayne insisted on Volquez in return.

    Would Dunn want to go to Texas and give them a sweet extension? If so, that makes Dunn a lot more attractive than a rent a player.. however, I feel Hamilton was still much more attractive to the Rangers than Dunn was.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  10. #10
    Man Pills
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Every time Cueto takes the mound, I think a little less of the "great" development team assembled under Krivsky.

    Honestly, how many times are we going to hear how good a shape this team's farm system is? It's this overarching narrative that connects every era of the last 10 years: the MLB product is dogcrap, but boy their farm is making great strides.

  11. #11
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Every time Cueto takes the mound, I think a little less of the "great" development team assembled under Krivsky.

    Honestly, how many times are we going to hear how good a shape this team's farm system is? It's this overarching narrative that connects every era of the last 10 years: the MLB product is dogcrap, but boy their farm is making great strides.
    Yes, I kind of agree. I definitely understand the thinking behind putting the pieces together carefully and step by step by rebuilding the farm system into something that produces long-lasting success -- that's the ideal -- but the real goal is to win at the major-league level, not to be able to point to some almost intangible farm system quality.

    Don Drysdale told a funny story about when his playing days were done and he was an adviser for the organization, sitting in a room with some of the scouts and execs going over the players' development, and he had to come out and say something to the effect of, "Man, we're going to win 120 games in a couple years ... everyone of these players is going to be an all-star according to you guys."

  12. #12
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don Drysdale told a funny story about when his playing days were done and he was an adviser for the organization, sitting in a room with some of the scouts and execs going over the players' development, and he had to come out and say something to the effect of, "Man, we're going to win 120 games in a couple years ... everyone of these players is going to be an all-star according to you guys."
    which is why organizational depth is so important ... because you never really know. The Reds are decidedly lacking in depth.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  13. #13
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    which is why organizational depth is so important ... because you never really know. The Reds are decidedly lacking in depth.
    I'm not sure I agree with that, although it depends on what you mean by "depth." If we're talking star quality, then yeah. As the current batch of grade-A prospects hits the beach, there's not another wave of A prospects behind them. But it's not like our competitors have multiple waves of A prospects coming either, and our depth in B/C prospects is very good, according to John Sickels among others. Those guys probably won't be stars but they're the useful players who keep a team from having to pay over-market for average production. And they serve as trading chips, which will make Jocketty happy, since trades were his specialty in St. Louis.
    Not all who wander are lost

  14. #14
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Every time Cueto takes the mound, I think a little less of the "great" development team assembled under Krivsky.

    Honestly, how many times are we going to hear how good a shape this team's farm system is? It's this overarching narrative that connects every era of the last 10 years: the MLB product is dogcrap, but boy their farm is making great strides.

    It's standard practice by every struggling franchise. There's always the calvary down in the minors that will save the day. Got to give the fans hope.

    The reality is that the best farm system in baseball can not alone produce enough talent to contend year in and year out. Trades need to be made. Money needs to be well spent. Even the Braves big run featured FA acquisions in their bullpen, and FAs like Maddux, Bream, Pendleton, etc.. as
    well as nice trades (Neagle from Pitts, Smoltz, etc) . Sure the farm helped a lot, but it's only part of the puzzle.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  15. #15
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    outside of Bruce there likely isn't a major league quality starting OF in the system ... and the Reds need to replace 3 of them next season.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand


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