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Thread: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

  1. #1
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Some interesting views from impartial observers. I think they're dead-on on a lot of things, particularly in who deserves credit for the current bright spots on the team. (my friend's e-mail pops up as the first question...big Baseball America fan)

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/media/podcasts/ (the 4-25 podcast)

    Love the line "...but the Cardinals DO more with their tradition." Also love the comparison between pitchers in the Reds' farm system circa 2004 and the drummer from Spinal Tap
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

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  3. #2
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    "The Reds are in the best shape they've been in in a decade." Basically this is true... maybe 8 years, rather than a decade, but basically true.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Interesting point made by John Manuel. The Reds' media reach has dwindled, perhaps, because WLW is "lunatic fringe radio."

    J.J. Cooper - There was a time where being a Reds pitching prospect was being like the drummer in Spinal Tap.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  5. #4
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Candor galore here...

    "Wayne Krivsky didn't do anything where he deserved to be fired."

    "Walt Jocketty becoming available in St. Louis is what got him fired."

    Rationale for The Trade... "If we get Kearns away from Adam Dunn, maybe Dunn does better?"

    Hamilton for Volquez "was a win-win."
    /r/reds

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    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    Hamilton for Volquez "was a win-win."
    The thing that bothered me at the time and still does is this: could we have gotten Volquez for Dunn?
    .

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    The thing that bothered me at the time and still does is this: could we have gotten Volquez for Dunn?
    Very doubtful. 1 year of a slugger making big bucks, or 5 potential years of a better all around hitter with good defense to boot for chump change.

  8. #7
    Man Pills
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Every time Cueto takes the mound, I think a little less of the "great" development team assembled under Krivsky.

    Honestly, how many times are we going to hear how good a shape this team's farm system is? It's this overarching narrative that connects every era of the last 10 years: the MLB product is dogcrap, but boy their farm is making great strides.

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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    outside of Bruce there likely isn't a major league quality starting OF in the system ... and the Reds need to replace 3 of them next season.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Every time Cueto takes the mound, I think a little less of the "great" development team assembled under Krivsky.

    Honestly, how many times are we going to hear how good a shape this team's farm system is? It's this overarching narrative that connects every era of the last 10 years: the MLB product is dogcrap, but boy their farm is making great strides.
    Yes, I kind of agree. I definitely understand the thinking behind putting the pieces together carefully and step by step by rebuilding the farm system into something that produces long-lasting success -- that's the ideal -- but the real goal is to win at the major-league level, not to be able to point to some almost intangible farm system quality.

    Don Drysdale told a funny story about when his playing days were done and he was an adviser for the organization, sitting in a room with some of the scouts and execs going over the players' development, and he had to come out and say something to the effect of, "Man, we're going to win 120 games in a couple years ... everyone of these players is going to be an all-star according to you guys."

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    outside of Bruce there likely isn't a major league quality starting OF in the system ... and the Reds need to replace 3 of them next season.
    Disagree big time. Danny Dorn has a chance to be ready next year when he comes off the DL (cut his leg in a game in the 3rd week of April, needed 19 stitches). While I am not saying these guys can be the type you are talking about, Shaun Cumberland and Sean Henry are making AA look awful easy right now. Down the line still, Drew Stubbs is surely showing he has the makings to be a quality CF. He won't start in Cincinnati out of the gate next year, but he certainly looks to be good at this point.

  12. #11
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don Drysdale told a funny story about when his playing days were done and he was an adviser for the organization, sitting in a room with some of the scouts and execs going over the players' development, and he had to come out and say something to the effect of, "Man, we're going to win 120 games in a couple years ... everyone of these players is going to be an all-star according to you guys."
    which is why organizational depth is so important ... because you never really know. The Reds are decidedly lacking in depth.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Disagree big time. Danny Dorn has a chance to be ready next year
    and also has a chance to amount to nothing. At this point if you are going to count on him for something you better well have a Plan B ready to go at a moments notice(same goes for Stubbs).

    These guys may turn out to be something useful but it is every bit as likely that they don't so you better have options and right now the Reds have none.

    Wasn't long ago that guy named Corey Patterson was the next best thing since sliced bread(far better prospect than either Dorn or Stubbs) and we know how that turned out.
    Last edited by flyer85; 05-01-2008 at 12:48 PM.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    The thing that bothered me at the time and still does is this: could we have gotten Volquez for Dunn?
    No chance whatsoever.
    Go Gators!

  15. #14
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    which is why organizational depth is so important ... because you never really know. The Reds are decidedly lacking in depth.
    I'm not sure I agree with that, although it depends on what you mean by "depth." If we're talking star quality, then yeah. As the current batch of grade-A prospects hits the beach, there's not another wave of A prospects behind them. But it's not like our competitors have multiple waves of A prospects coming either, and our depth in B/C prospects is very good, according to John Sickels among others. Those guys probably won't be stars but they're the useful players who keep a team from having to pay over-market for average production. And they serve as trading chips, which will make Jocketty happy, since trades were his specialty in St. Louis.
    Not all who wander are lost

  16. #15
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Baseball America's take on the Jocketty hiring

    Todd Frazier is another guy who could eventually be a left fielder if Edwin pans out at third base. He's got the bat to play just about anywhere.


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