Repeat this sentence, out loud, five thousand times....but it seems some here now are changing their view that the whole franchise was a mess when Wayne arrived. That's not really true.
It will still never be true.
And using fan optimisim as a vaild measuring stick is a fools errand. Hell, I'm optimisitic that the Reds will be in the hunt every spring. But my enternal optimisim has no bearing on the objective facts on the playing field, no matter how many times I forget the lesson. So to say the orginization was in good shape just because some fans were buzzed about Ryan Wagner is massive leap in pseudo-logic.
Last edited by Ltlabner; 05-01-2008 at 05:11 PM.
a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.
I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate
1.Claussens shoulder was shot. That is why his velocity fell(not elbow). I saw him pitch Augest 03 and he looked great(90-93mph fastball, about a tick below his pre-TJ level) with nasty slider. That following spring, his stuff looked like it fell apart. I commented the Reds should be looking into trading Claussen for this very reason and got bashed. The guy had issues.
2.Harang broke out legitly
3.Belisle. Nobody was that high on Matt. He was in the BP at that time. Basically we hoped he could become somebody some day(maybe he still will)
4.Weathers. Please, he was old. His 2006-7 was a mirage. Not the kind of stuff teams build on
5.Bailey,Cueto. Again, please. Both of those guys were years away in 2005 and even in 2006 from becoming a BIG force.
6.The other guys? What guys? Outside of Coffey, none were overly highly respected. Wagner fell apart in 05 and most suspected a injury. We were right. By the end of 05, he was already a afterthought for many(at least in my mind he was).
So we didn't have near as much as you hoped after 05. Harang and um, um, um maybe Coffey ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! Not much.
As for the lineup, please. Votto was coming off a sad 2005 season and Griffey hit his last big year. Dunn was topping out and Kearns was flopping. EE was to young and was years away from making a big impact. No doubt the Reds had some talent there, but not as much as you hope.
I would say the big loss was the dream of turning Kearns into a stud pitcher. Well, no wonder we didn't. The truth hurts there.
I would take the Reds now. If this current May 1st edition was what we had at the end of 2005, I bet many GM's would have taken up Cast's offer for the job. Young exciting infield, Jay Bruce, Homer Bailey,Johnny Cueto, Ed Volquez. Alot to play with. After 2005? Nothing.
Wayne arrived in 2006, broham.So I guess the point is that in 2005 (when Wayne arrived)...
No, sir. Not by me!...the Reds were generally viewed as being in pretty good shape too,
That was excitement relative to having Jacob Cruz, Milton/Wilson and D'Angelo Jimenez inked in to the lineup.Optimism certainly went through the roof in the early part of the 2006 season, when the roster was largely DanO's guys plus Hat, Arroyo + Phillips.
"Bring on Rod Stupid!"
And it's got nothing to do with the current situation where the Reds have Phillips in his prime, Encarnacion on the improve, Votto breaking in, Bruce pounding at the door, more attractive starting pitching options than at any point in recent memory and a quality closer.
The point I was making is that the Reds are somewhere in between dire and winning, which I vastly prefer to dire.
Raisel Ghul, the Demon's Head
Make that a thing.
Raisel Ghul, the Demon's Head
Make that a thing.
Pre-Wayne, the Reds were going into the season penciling in the likes of Dave Williams, Brandon Claussen and Eric Milton into the rotation. The bullpen included Chris Hammond, Mike Burns and Rick White.
That 2006 team was destined to lose, and lose hard -- and I think most people were fairly certain of that. If Dan'O hadn't been fired, they'd have been a real threat to lose an even 100.
24 Years and Counting...
"We're just not going to lose anymore." -Bob Castellini, 4/23/08
He really is the worst professional sports owner in Cincinnati. Has this team EVER committed to contending or rebuilding? No is the answer, in my opinion.
Mike Brown is awful, but consistent. Castellini is just strange. Spends millions on Dusty Baker when someone just as good could be had for probably $300,000 a year or less. Changes GMs three times in a few years.
I'll take Mike Brown's quixotic quest to win HIS way, no matter what, over the meaningless bluster and constant search for quick fixes that we've seen at Great American Ballpark lately.
1) He has changed GM's twice since he has owned the team. And both times, it was an improvement.
2) I think even Narron and Miley got close to $500K a year, and I know that even A.J. Hinch is around that. But you are right a cheaper manager could had, just not for anywhere near $300K.
3) The Reds are contending now, thanks to Cast commiting too much money to Harang, Arroyo, Phillips, Taveras, Lincoln, Hairston and Cordero. Commitment to winning is not his problem.
4) Mike Brown has no quest to win, his way or any other. He has a quest to make money. If he wins while doing that... gravy.
Cast wants to win. However, he is just starting to figure out how, with Jocketty's guidance. The health of the Reds organization is miles better than the health of the Bengals. Not even close.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein