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Thread: Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

  1. #1
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    Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

    Well, you if were waiting for your first over-the-top, the sky-is-falling, we-need-to-trade everyone thread, here it is!

    But hear me out first.

    2008 is all but lost. I've gone from really believing in this team in the spring to having no faith at all. I have ZERO confidence that we can bounce back from this 12-20 start and contend. ZERO.

    So, the ONLY thing I care about at this point is the future of the club. And for the first time in long time, I think we actually have at least a handful of guys worth watching down the road.

    Here's how I look at it:

    List of guys I would NOT trade and would try to build around:

    --Volquez
    --Cueto
    --Bruce
    --Votto
    --Bailey
    --Phillips (having a terrible year, but still a guy that can be useful in the future)
    --Keppinger (it may seem odd to have him on a "no trade" list, but I don't think he has a ton of value on the market, but DOES have value on the field)

    List of guys I would trade for a bag of baseballs:

    --Arroyo (anyone that wants his salary can have him)
    --Griffey (see above-- plus, I'd like to see Jr. play for a contender)
    --Hatteberg (I'll take whatever)
    --Any of our catchers
    --Freel (time has come to say goodbye)

    The problem with the guys listed directly above is that pretty much all fans would like to see them traded, yet no team in their right mind is going to give up anything of substance for them (maybe Junior, but I'm not even sure about him). So, I'd trade each of them with the idea to simply get rid of them rather than get a certain return for them. If you stumble into a prospect, then great. If not, no worries.

    List of guys I would definitely trade, but not give away:

    --Dunn
    --Edwin

    With his performace this year, I'd lean towards keeping EE, but I'm certainly not opposed to listening if there is interest. As for Dunn, it just seems like time. I really don't see him as a cornerstone of this franchise, and I'm not willing to pony up to keep him. It would be somewhat tough to let him go, but if we got a decent return, I could live with it.

    Now, if we REALLY want to build for the future, I think we dangle these two guys:

    --Harang
    --Cordero

    Both of these players are in their prime right now and are pitching VERY well. Both have SERIOUS market value. Both could REALLY make certain conteding teams salivate. Harang could easily be the most desireable player on the trade market if we made him available. Cordero's contract may turn off a few teams, but clubs start getting a tad desperate as the season moves on.

    I really like both of these guys, but I have a really strong feeling that they may both be past their optimum peak by the team the Reds are ready to contend.

    I can see it now....everything comes together in 2010, and Harang takes a nosedive.

    Like I mentioned above, we have a decent core of young players to build on....

    I am not going to name names, but imagine this:

    I bet we could get a Volquez-type pitching prospect, a Votto-type offensive player, and a Keppinger-type prospect for Harang. Let's say we can land a #3 starter prospect for Cordero.

    Now, you take the core add ANOTHER Volquez, ANOTHER Votto, ANOTHER Keppinger, and a legit 3rd starter....you have just sped up the process of rebuilding.

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  3. #2
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

    I would listen to offers on Cordero. No way do I trade an ACE in Harang that I have under control for more than the next 4 months.

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    Re: Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I would listen to offers on Cordero. No way do I trade an ACE in Harang that I have under control for more than the next 4 months.
    Not much sense in having an ACE if the rest of the team around him stinks. I say take the ACE and try to parlay it into fortifying and rounding out the roster.

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    Re: Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

    Cordero has a full no-trade clause through 2009. Helpfull linky:

    http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/200...i-reds_24.html
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Re: Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Cordero has a full no-trade clause through 2009. Helpfull linky:

    http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/200...i-reds_24.html

    I can't imagine he's be opposed to going somewhere else, as long as his paychecks stayed the same.

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    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edskin View Post
    I can't imagine he's be opposed to going somewhere else, as long as his paychecks stayed the same.
    Do you want to move, as long as your paycheck stays the same?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

    BTW--If I'm moving Harang, I'm moving Phillips too...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Re: Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Do you want to move, as long as your paycheck stays the same?
    Heck Yeah, I'd move if it meant I was able to do my job at a much higher level than I was currently doing it.

    Baseball players have a limited lifespan...a guy like Cordero is in his final stages of productivity-- if has a competitive bone in his body, I'm sure he'd like to be closing games for a team that could go to the World Series-- rather than for a team that is going to win 70 games.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edskin View Post
    Not much sense in having an ACE if the rest of the team around him stinks. I say take the ACE and try to parlay it into fortifying and rounding out the roster.
    Keep the ace and hope what else you move can turn into the pieces to add to your ace to lead to some winning.

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    Re: Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    BTW--If I'm moving Harang, I'm moving Phillips too...
    I'm really not against moving BP, I just don't think it's too realistic. I think Harang can net you franchise-changing type of prosepcts. Not sure Phillips can do that. And BP should at least be a steady 2B for the next several years. So, sure if someone made a great offer, I'd take it, but I just don't see that happening.

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    Re: Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Keep the ace and hope what else you move can turn into the pieces to add to your ace to lead to some winning.
    I'm certainly not going to blast anyone for taking that approach. But I'm not sure the "what else you move" is going to turn into much. The Ace, on the other hand, could very well command a King's Ransom.

  13. #12
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    Re: Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Cordero has a full no-trade clause through 2009. Helpfull linky:

    http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/200...i-reds_24.html
    He can still be moved (he can waive his rights)-he just plays a bigger influence in the trade negotiations.

    That said, the Reds already overpaid significantly making it more difficult to find a team willing to go the extra mile to compensate Cordero for waiving his rights.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

    I really have no interest in trading Harang for a few prospects who, if everything works out and the stars all align, might develop into someone nearly as good as Harang. That's not progress.

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    Re: Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?

    If our starting pitching (Harang, Volquez, Cueto, Bailey, Arroyo etc.) actually gets it going at some time over the next few years, we can likely have a contender. It's 10 times easier to find postion players than great starters.

    For that reason, I am against trading Harang, unless it was like a Chamberlain, Kennedy and Hughes offer from the Yankees. And Kennedy and Highes have taken their lumps recently.

  16. #15
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Harang

    Lets play a game. We are a very good team and need another starter. Not just a #3/4 but a #1 to put us in reach of a world series trophy.
    The team with Harang asks for our best four prospects ( ie Bruce, Bailey & two other guys rated as 'B+' ). Would you do it?
    This is the type of return I would need to trade Harang.
    To do it a team would have to be stacked with prospects.

    P.S. - If what we were offered for Harang was in any way similar to what the As got for Haren I'd pass.
    .


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