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Thread: Paul Daugherty and Junior

  1. #1
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Paul Daugherty and Junior

    The last two (or maybe three) nights Doc has been harping over and over about getting rid of Junior. He's got the fans (at least those that call in) so fired up about the Kid that it's unbelievable. The USA Today newspaper article, which was a good hack job is his main point of reference. This is typical of the Cincinnati media it seems. And in his best Andy Furman style, beat it to death ujntil everyone is frothing at the mouth to run Junior out of town.

    It all started last week when he brought up that there was not much hoopla surrounding Junior's 600th HR. He had a guy on his show from Seattle who said there was no place for Junior there, but did that stop the relentless proclamation of "Junior want to finish his career in Seattle"? Nope. Just over and over.

    Oh yeah. He wants to trade Dunn, too. That will solve all the Reds' problems. Not
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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty and Junior

    I almost posted this article earlier tonight, and this thread is a perfect chance to do so.

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...T04/305070089/

    That's a terrible article. It made me sick reading it. Most Reds fan want Griffey dealt after he hits 600, but my God what has Griffey done to deserve this? He got hurt a lot, that's not really his fault. He's always been a class act.

    I want to see Griffey traded, but I will miss him when he leaves. We don't need all this crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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    Re: Paul Daugherty and Junior

    I really doubt that Jocketty is paying much attention to this, so I think it's pretty irrelevant.

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    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty and Junior

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I almost posted this article earlier tonight, and this thread is a perfect chance to do so.

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...T04/305070089/

    That's a terrible article. It made me sick reading it. Most Reds fan want Griffey dealt after he hits 600, but my God what has Griffey done to deserve this? He got hurt a lot, that's not really his fault. He's always been a class act.

    I want to see Griffey traded, but I will miss him when he leaves. We don't need all this crap.
    True about the article. Just sickening. For all the gripes about Marty, this just goes over the top more than Marty ever has, but that's another thread.

    Daugherty has harped on this all week--the part about the disgruntled fan--and it's getting tiresome. Why is it that every sports anchor who ever comes on in the pre-post game segments want to create a story instead of just talking about the game? Ratings? I suppose.

    Take all those HR's and runs, and RBI's out of this lineup (and you're a fool if you think Jay Bruce can duplicate even what these two under normal circumstances can produce) in an already emasculated offensive team, and you get a lot of shutouts. Until the offense of this club is addressed, they better have Dunn and Junior in the lineup. More pitching is not the answer. We've tried that to no avail.
    www.ris-news.com
    "You only have to bat a thousand in two things; flying and heart transplants. Everything else you can go 4-for-5."
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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty and Junior

    Bashing JR has always been an easy way to get the loons to call in on extra innings, all the way back to when JR first arrived he's been the "favorite" for them.
    Go Gators!

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    Reds 5:11 coachw513's Avatar
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    How many of you can relate to this fan?

    Story in the Enquirer...bet is sounds familiar to many here:

    The nine-year ache
    A story of one fan's descent into indifference
    BY PAUL DAUGHERTY | PDAUGHERTY@ENQUIRER.COM

    Brad Boschert showed up at Lunken Airport nine years ago, to watch Ken Griffey Jr. exit Carl Lindner’s private jet. Griffey was bound for a press conference at Cinergy Field that would send chills down every spine in the Tristate. Boschert couldn’t believe his good fortune.

    There is love and there is mad man-crush. Boschert loved the Reds. For Game 2 of the ’90 World Series, he sat with his father in seats near the left field foul pole. He could have almost touched the ball Joe Oliver hit that won that game.

    Boschert was present when the Reds lost the playoff game to the Mets in ’99. When he played golf on early summer evenings, the Walkman was in his ear, playing Marty and Joe. Boschert graduated from Monroe High in 1988, a year after Griffey graduated from Moeller. He was disappointed the Seattle Mariners drafted Griffey before the Reds could. Enter the man-crush phase of the equation.

    “I dreamed for 11 years of him being a Red," Boschert recalled. “When Lindner’s plane touched down at Lunken, I was giddy."

    That was a long time ago. Griffey’s time in Cincinnati is about done. His “era" has been marked by disappointment, futility and cynicism. And worse, a growing apathy among fans. Little of this had anything to do with Griffey. It just started happening when he arrived.

    Now, Brad Boschert still follows the Reds, when he can, with an eye narrowed by his own weary cynicism and disappointment. He’d like to believe in them again. But they never give him a reason. “They’ve sucked the life out of me," Boschert said today.

    OK, so who’s Brad Boschert? Nobody. Everybody. You. Me. A 38-year-old guy with a wife, three kids and a mortgage. The passionate fan the Reds have lost, but who aches to come back. The faint heartbeat the Reds need to revive, to be anything consistently better than the Pittsburgh Pirates.

    It’s telling that Reds fans haven’t gotten worked up about Griffey’s impending membership in The 600 Club. They’ve been so beaten down by losing and ineptitude, not even a hometown player crossing a precious threshold can grab them.

    Equally revealing, when the Enquirer asked readers in a poll what the team should do with Griffey, 75 percent of more than 4,000 respondents said Griffey should be traded after he hits No. 600.

    “Any sports owner’s worst enemy is indifference," said Boschert, who hasn’t been to a game this year and struggles with whether to take his kids to “watch them lose 11-2 and see Adam Dunn hit two solo homers.

    “My best friend loved them the way I did," Boschert said. “Now, he couldn’t tell you what their record is."

    Boschert wants Griffey traded, he wants Dunn traded. He wants “the whole thing to be blown up. Nothing personal. It breaks my heart the way it worked out here for Junior. But I’ve been looking forward to him leaving, because things won’t change until he’s gone."

    Boschert doesn’t blame Griffey for the nine-year ache. “It’s nuts," Boschert said. “The guy has been here (almost) a decade, but it feels like he was never here at all. The highlight-reel superstar, the greatest player of his generation, where did he go? It’s like he left Seattle and went underground."

    Truth is, Griffey’s career here has mirrored the decline of the team. Hope, injury, mediocrity, indifference. The emotions Boschert feels, his hero has felt, too.

    “I still care," Boschert said. He lives in Columbus now. The Walkman is gone. He’ll listen to the games on the radio, if he’s working in the yard and nothing else occupies his time. It’s the difference between high noon and sunset. Sound familiar?

    “They’ll have my full patience and understanding if they make big changes. But right now, the Reds aren’t fooling anyone who knows baseball," Boschert said. "I got all jacked up the first few series this year, but they’re looking again like a team that’s going to win 75 games."

    Until that changes, Boschert will be content with his memories, and the lingering, almost naïve notion that the Reds again will be worth his heart’s time. Everyfan is out there, wary and hopeful at the same time.


    You cannot defeat an ignorant man in an argument!
    -William Gibbs McAdoo

    Though many of us here are sure trying

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    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty and Junior

    Daugherty's coming on XM this morning in the last hour of the show.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty and Junior

    I caught a little bit of Doc's radio show as I was driving from the hotel to dinner. I don't normally listen to him, but the radio happened to be on WLW. He was going on about Jr. again last night.

    He had a local Seatle radio guy on and was baiting him about them taking Jr. back. Basically the guy said everyone up there realizes Jr's day has passed, you can't go home, there's nowhere for him to play, they have some tallented youngsters so why block them, etc etc. The guy was polite but he was making it pretty clear that Jr to Seattle was a pipe dream.

    No matter what the guy said Doc was intent on boring ahead with Jr to Seattle. It was pretty laughable listening as the Seatle guy was making it plainly clear that Jr to Seattle was a non-starter and Doc kept doggidly ramming home his adgenda.

    Jr's days's in Cincy are numbered but what's with Doc's glee to unload the guy? Oh wait....Doc's a hack. I almost forgot.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 05-08-2008 at 07:18 AM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty and Junior

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Bashing JR has always been an easy way to get the loons to call in on extra innings, all the way back to when JR first arrived he's been the "favorite" for them.
    To be fair, PD is competing with internet porn for his readership/listeners.....
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Paul Daugherty and Junior

    I think the article is pretty realistic and doesn't knock Griffey. Many fans including myself have become more apathetic the last few years. You can see it, feel it, smell it on Redszone too.

    The Reds haven't been very fun to watch the last 3 years or so. I'm a fan but certainly not like I was when I jumped on this crazy train.

    Yesterday was exciting! You know ..... because chicks dig the long ball.
    Pots and Kettles

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    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty and Junior

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamCasey View Post
    I think the article is pretty realistic and doesn't knock Griffey. Many fans including myself have become more apathetic the last few years. You can see it, feel it, smell it on Redszone too.

    The Reds haven't been very fun to watch the last 3 years or so. I'm a fan but certainly not like I was when I jumped on this crazy train.

    Yesterday was exciting! You know ..... because chicks dig the long ball.
    I really don't get this sentiment towards PD. Every time I hear him, he's very clear about the fact that the current state of the Reds and Junior's game are not KGJ's fault. Injuries and a FO unable to build a consistent winner around the guy are the sources for the problems faced today. If Doc is drumming up attention towards the subject, I for one am interested. Sadly, there's no place for Junior on this team going forward. The return to Seattle thing would be a nice ending to a storied career while assisting the Reds with furthering the youth movement.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  13. #12
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    Re: Paul Daugherty and Junior

    That isn't a hack job at all-- maybe beating a dead horse, but the article hardly "slams" Griffey. It basically says that the Reds stink, the fans have lost interest, and that the Griffey era in Cincy has been a major disappointment. He doesn't "blame" Junior for anything.

    The article is 100% accurate and I think it does a pretty good job of expressing the general fan sentiment. Is it the same stuff we hear over and over? Yeah. But honestly, there isn't much else to talk about.

  14. #13
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty and Junior

    Great points Ed. Exactly what I was going to make. We all know Griffs time has unfortunately passed. Its a matter of can we trade him this season and get something, or let him walk after the season?

    Doc isn't the best, no question, but he's also not appealing to the intelligent and informed sports or Reds fans. He's appealing to the casual fan who doesn't know every detail of the ins and outs of the Reds. We hate on Doc because, well frankly most of us are more intelligent than he is.

    Add in the fact the team is again going nowhere and you simple just can't talk about the events on the field night after night, no one would care. Therefore he is almost forced to discuss things like Griff, Dunn, Arroyo and other 'should be traded' types.

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    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty and Junior

    I'll never understand sport fans' knack for running a team's best player out of town. I'm referring to Dunn over Griffey, but geesh- has here been a more consistent better Red than Dunn the past few years?
    If you're watchin' a parade, make sure you stand in one spot, don't follow it, it never changes. And if the parade is boring, run in the opposite direction, you will fast-foward the parade. --Mitch Hedberg

  16. #15
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Paul Daugherty and Junior

    I listened a little bit to the show last night and had to turn it off. Doc mentioned that he and Jr. talked about a problem that Jr. had with a column that Doc wrote. This weeklong love afair that Doc has with trading Jr. seems to be driven from Jr being mad at him.

    Doc has created a topic. Actually USA today created a topic that really wasn't there. Fox created a topic that really wasn't there with putting Jr and Dunn on the trading block. No one in their right mind is going to say that thy Kid we hoped to get was the same Jr we saw during his tenure in Cincy. My problem with the debate is that it isn't Jr's fault. When healthy he has been pretty productive and still is a threat in the lineup. The problem during Jr's tenure was Haynes, Joey Hamilton, Paul Wilson, etc. The problem was the rotation of the future in 2003 has since fizzled out by now. The problem was more with ownership than it was with Jr. But most people in Cincinnati just place the blame on Jr.


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