He's the Reds' all time saves leader, but when you think of great Reds closers, does the name Danny Graves come to mind?
yes
no
He's the Reds' all time saves leader, but when you think of great Reds closers, does the name Danny Graves come to mind?
My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!
Simply because he flamed out in the end, doesn't take anything away from how good he was when he was on top.
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The numbers say that Danny belongs in that pantheon. It'll take a while longer for the bridges he burned in Cincinnati to quit smoldering. Once that happens, history should view him more kindly. Give it another 10 years.
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I think you have to be more consistant over an entire career to deserve that honor.
Originally Posted by Raisor
Graves in his 'prime' was a competent middle reliever who was the Reds 'closer' due to lack of anyone better. If this gets you into the Reds Hall of Fame then we must truly be bad.
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I voted "no" but quite frankly, if Cesar Geronimo is a HoF'er, then Danny Graves probably is, too.
The bar has been set very low.
sorry we're boring
I voted yes, although the time period is certainly a factor. He was a pretty good pitcher until the disastrous attempt at turning him into a starting pitcher.
I pretty much agree. Had he handled his exit with a bit more class, he'd be a lock, IMO. Saves is a stat Cincy fans tend to value pretty high, so I'd imagine the fans would have voted him in on their ballot. Maybe not now, though.
They didn't call him the "Baby Faced Assassin" when he came into a game because he lacked skill, the guy was LIGHTS OUT for a few years.
He got messed up when he went to the rotation, then he got frustrated, none of that takes anything away from what he accomplished before that time.
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goreds2 (07-17-2023)
The bar is set low for the Reds HoF, I hate to admit that. There should be a handful of members, but thats a rant for another time.
Graves should be however. He did his job better than anyone else as a Red, its not his fault the teams were bad.
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goreds2 (07-17-2023)
Should a former dominant closer be judged so harsh for his latter failures?
SUBQUESTION
Is it better to burn out than fade away?
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5 solid years as a good closer simply doesn't put in you the Reds HOF in my book. Graves had some nice seasons, but he wasn't dominant - a 3.50 ERA and 1.30 WHIP is merely good for a reliever. You want dominant, look at Rob Dibble's first 5 years. The Reds history can be written without Danny Graves and nobody would really notice the omission.
Last edited by RedsManRick; 05-10-2008 at 08:43 PM.
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
That exactly what I was going to post. He was miscast as a closer. He certainly isn't deserving of the Reds HOF, IMO.
And I'm with Rick, he was never lights out or dominant in any season, let alone over a period of seasons.
Last edited by MWM; 05-10-2008 at 08:02 PM.
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Also, it wasn't like he was this really good closer who suddenly got thrust into the rotation. He was converted to a starter because he wasn't getting the job done in the bullpen. Then, when it became apparent that he wasn't getting the job done in the rotation either, he was moved back to the pen, where he could do less damage.
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Sure, he was decent on some bad teams.
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