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Thread: Observations from Shea today...

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    Observations from Shea today...

    It was an interesting game with a sad outcome. Naturally, my comments aren't really positive. Weather was great. Gotta love the Mets fans who come up and say that Cueto was a flash in the pan and that they think Volquez will be too. The environment is always fun, especially in the upper deck. Everything is so dramatic. Every pitch is one step away from a breakdown, even when the Mets have huge leads!

    On to the comments...

    * I'm sorry, but I don't have any faith in Belisle. I know he was facing a tough lineup, but he looked way too hittable on every pitch. He wasn't fooling anyone up there. The error that he committed on his throw was very costly and helped to put the game out of reach. It's all about damage control. Pitchers will always be challenged, especially when they don't have their best stuff. But good pitchers exert damage control, and that's what Santana did. He got the big outs when he needed them and kept his team in the game, despite giving up a lot of hits. I don't blame Belisle soley, I blame Dusty too, which I'll get to later.

    * Patterson needs to benched, regardless of his defense. He looked like Ryan Freel on the base pads out there. A caught stealing and a pickoff in the same game is unacceptable. That certainly hurt the Reds chances of scoring, especially in the 1st.

    * Ross...the dude looks lost at the plate. I know he had a hit and I guess with a double header, I'd rather see Ross catch 1 of the games than Javy, but he needs help. Badly.

    * Affeldt looks really really good. He was hitting 95 on the gun in the park and he was fooling people. I know some people wern't in favor of him initially and while he wouldn't make a good starting pitcher, I do think he's a good reliever. At least he sure looked it.

    * Dusty...I've been more patient than others...but he left Belisle out there too long. I know, there's a double header. But that doesn't mean you should concede the game, especially when it's close. If he yanks Belisle an inning earlier, it may have been a different ball game. Why is it when a Cubs pitchers gives up 3 runs, Lou fires up the bullpen. Or in Rich Hill's case, not even 3 runs, just a bunch of walks? Damage control. It's all about damage control.

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  3. #2
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Observations from Shea today...

    Good comments FOP.

    I'm hoping Belisle has tossed his last pitch as a starter and is relegated to the pen or back to AAA.

    I see no reason at this juncture NOT to bring up Bruce and Bailey and replace Patterson and Belisle/Fogg.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Observations from Shea today...

    I've come around a bit on Affeldt. He's clearly got good stuff and he's a ground ball pitcher. Obviously the walks aren't so hot, but the strikeouts are there. Not the best way to spend $3M in my opinion, but we've certainly gotten less out of more.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Observations from Shea today...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I've come around a bit on Affeldt. He's clearly got good stuff and he's a ground ball pitcher. Obviously the walks aren't so hot, but the strikeouts are there. Not the best way to spend $3M in my opinion, but we've certainly gotten less out of more.
    I think the cost for a decent middle reliever is $3m a year.
    One more reason to develop your own.
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    Re: Observations from Shea today...

    Here's an interesting stat...

    Santana gave up 10 hits to the Reds today...that ties a career high for him.

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    Member wally post's Avatar
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    Re: Observations from Shea today...

    I went to this evening's game. Arroyo looked incredible. He was a witch doctor out there. Graceful -
    Hatteburg's error was fine - and evened out by both his hitting and an almost identical error by David Wright later in the game.

    Griffey looks like he is simply cruising through his tour - not talking about his two bloop hits.. more so about his general vibe (as if I am qualified to observe and comment on that! LOL!

    Really, our Reds had a game much like many before - where they dominated, and the best news is.. they closed it out and actually WON! WOOHOO!!

    Also - it is so neat to see a real game in person. It's been a while for me. You really get a feeling - a degree of difficulty that simply doesn't exist through a camera.
    Go Reds!

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    Member wally post's Avatar
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    Re: Observations from Shea today...

    HAH! Once again, I close a thread. I am buzzkill!! (sorry!)

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    SERP deep cover ops WebScorpion's Avatar
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    Re: Observations from Shea today...

    Quote Originally Posted by wally post View Post
    HAH! Once again, I close a thread. I am buzzkill!! (sorry!)
    Well, this one is called observations from Shea, so it is sort of a limited group of people... that, or it's your deodorant.

    I think the 5th starter solution may be staring us right in the face. Switch Affeldt and Belisle. Even if you think Belisle will eventually become a good starter, he obviously could use a break or at least something to change the rut or shake him up. Affeldt had nothing when we were trying him out as a starter...his stuff simply was not there. Since he's made the adjustments to get his pitches back in line, I think it would be nice to see if he can maintain that stuff through more innings. Just make sure Belisle is available in long relief every time and stretch him out while you shorten Belisle's outings. It would be nice to have a lefty in there breaking up all those righties.

    "Okay you guys, pair up in threes!" --Yogi Berra

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Observations from Shea today...

    Quote Originally Posted by WebScorpion View Post
    Well, this one is called observations from Shea, so it is sort of a limited group of people... that, or it's your deodorant.

    I think the 5th starter solution may be staring us right in the face. Switch Affeldt and Belisle. Even if you think Belisle will eventually become a good starter, he obviously could use a break or at least something to change the rut or shake him up. Affeldt had nothing when we were trying him out as a starter...his stuff simply was not there. Since he's made the adjustments to get his pitches back in line, I think it would be nice to see if he can maintain that stuff through more innings. Just make sure Belisle is available in long relief every time and stretch him out while you shorten Belisle's outings. It would be nice to have a lefty in there breaking up all those righties.
    I think they need Affeldt in the pen where he is now established as an effective LH Reliever. I know people knock Affeldt, but he is what everyone hopes Bray will eventually be.

    I'd stick with Belisle a little longer. If he doesn't get it together, I'd try Justin Lehr. I'd leave Fogg in long relief.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Observations from Shea today...

    Quote Originally Posted by wally post View Post
    Hatteburg's error was fine - and evened out by both his hitting and an almost identical error by David Wright later in the game.
    Is that the one where Hatt bobbled/dropped the ball? I thought he did a nice job in recovery and got the ball to Arroyo in plenty of time who then dropped it. IMO, the toss should have been caught.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Observations from Shea today...

    Quote Originally Posted by wally post View Post
    HAH! Once again, I close a thread. I am buzzkill!! (sorry!)
    We should not make sure to make this thread last as long as possible
    Go Gators!

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    Re: Observations from Shea today...

    Went down to that dump that is Shea (and wow is it a dump) today for the Mother's Day Special. Sat in the Loge Boxes directly behind home plate, great seats.

    Some random observations.

    1. Freel on the base paths continues to amaze me. He singled in the 7th, and I immediately turned to my buddy and said "watch, he'll get either thrown out trying to steal, or picked off". Sure enough, Schoeneweis picked him off.

    2. I don't care what Corey Patterson does at the plate, but I want him in CF everyday. Freel just doesn't seem to see the ball well off the bat, and just isn't fast enough to make up for his poor reaction(s). I applaud Freel's effort, and he should have gotten Castillo's triple had Griffey not gotten in the way, but he's just not a good defender.

    3. I don't even know where to start about Griffey. He looks ok at the plate, I liked his approach today. He knew he couldn't hit Perez, so he drew a couple walks instead, rather than hacking at stuff he knew he couldn't hit. Had Perez adjusted after Griffey's first AB, then Griffey may have not reached base again, but that's on Perez. But, my rant about Griffey is that he's the biggest defensive liability we have out there. He got in Freel's way in the 1st, which allowed Castillo to get a triple. In the bottom of the 6th, IIRC, Easley hit a ball that Griffey made no break on, which resulted in the ball dropping in front of him, and in the process of not charging the ball, then made no throw home, and let Reyes easily score. I just wondered why Griffey didn't charge the ball hit directly at him, and then made no attempt to throw Reyes out at the plate. Reyes flinched as the ball was hit at Griffey, but then turned on his jets once it hit the ground. I honestly think that Griffey could have thrown him out at the plate had he charged the ball, and then attempted to make a throw. But instead, the ball dropped in front of the statue and then the statue worried about keeping Easley at 1st, which baffled me. I hate to say it, but at this point I just want Griffey gone, b/c of the way he carries himself defensively. He honestly looks like he could careless if a ball drops in front of him. It's just sad to see. I remember a younger Griffey that went all out for every ball, almost like we see Freel do. That Griffey seems to be a figment of my imagination, at this point...

    4. Dunn didn't look good against the lefties today. He also looked really pissed at himself when he fouled a couple balls off that he must have felt he should have driven somewhere. Physically, Dunn looks slimmer than I remember him, and he looks more athletic in LF. His arm seems to have gotten weaker though.

    5. Brandon Phillips hasn't met a pitch he doesn't like. He'll swing at anything. Anytime, anywhere. My jaw honestly dropped when Phillips walked in the 4th. I must say that I feel like Phillips can steal 2B anytime he wants. He seems to really read the pitcher's move to the plate well, and has no problem getting to full speed in about 3 steps. I just wish Phillips would realize he can get on base via the walk, and not swing at bad pitches. His single up the middle looked like he swung at a ball outside, but had a good result. I don't like the odds of that happening too often.

    6. Cueto needs a more compact move from the stretch, IMO. Granted, Reyes stole 2B off him, but Reyes is Reyes. Perez (yes, the pitcher Perez) stole 2B off Cueto due to the slow move. Cueto also needs to throw his change-up more, IMO, and his slider less. Opponents seem to wait for the slider, and react to the fastball. I really think that if he mixed up his speeds more, opponents would have to respect all 3 pitches, rather then just wait for the slider and drive it. Cueto's location also concerns me. I know this will sound crazy, but he's too much in the strikezone, IMO. I'd almost like to see him be a little more like Volquez, and be effectively wild. I still can't believe he walked Perez, but hats off to Perez for working the walk. When he walked Delgado, I thought it was basically an intentional walk. When he walked Wright, it seemed like he was squeezed by the ump, but kept trying to get a call that the ump wouldn't give him. I think Cueto needs to be a little less stubborn, and take the zone he gets, rather than the zone he thinks he should get. It also looked like Cueto tweaked something in his right hip when he fielded Perez's bunt. He grabbed the hip area at least twice after that, in later innings. I'm sure it's nothing, but just something I observed.

    7. Keppinger is a joy to watch at the plate. Looks like he he'll get on with every PA. It looked like the ump wanted to run Kountry Kepp at the end of the 8th. Kepp thought he had drawn the walk after the 5th pitch, but it was called a strike (looked inside). And then he swung at a bad pitch to strike out after fouling off a good pitch. I wish I could have heard what Kepp said to the ump, b/c whatever it was made the ump take off his mask and take a couple steps towards the Reds dugout.

    8. I have no idea why EE didn't attempt to make a play on Reyes' (I think it was Reyes) chop down the 3B line. Make a play on it regardless of being fair or foul! If it's foul, then it's foul. Don't assume it's foul! Make the play assuming it's fair! The more I watch EE in the field, the more I'm convinced that his concentration is suspect, at best. Maybe he needs some ADD or ADHD drugs for when he's in the field?

    9. Bray looked good, IMO. Burton looked ok, but just seemed really excited, for whatever reason. I'd like to see more of those two in a Reds uniform in the future. I think those 2 really could be something.

    10. The Mets have ridiculous team speed. I wish we had that kinda team speed.

    11. NYC traffic continues to suck.

    12. Both the new Yankees Stadium and Citi Field look stunning. I'll definitely have to make trips down to each of them once they're open.

    13. Only maybe 3 people said anything to me about the Dunn jersey I was wearing. I figured Mets fans would have let me hear about it.

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    Re: Observations from Shea today...

    Some more observations.

    1. Alou might be damn near 50, but he can still play.

    2. Beltran continues to be an excellent CF. IIRC, he tracked a ball off Votto's bat that was hit to the LCF gap like a gazelle. Beltran was shaded slightly to RCF, but as soon as the ball was hit, he was in a dead sprint to the LCF gap, and caught it in stride. Makes me jealous to see that kind of D combined with a switch hitting CF that can do some work at the plate.

    3. Cueto seemed to shake off Bako more than a few times. For whatever reason, it sticks out in my mind that the pitches Cueto wanted after shaking off Bako resulted it good things for the Mets. Cueto also still seems to be landing towards 1B just slightly, and throwing across his body.

    4. I still can't believe Cueto walked Oliver Perez, and then a couple pitches later Perez stole 2B. Inexcusable in my book.

  15. #14
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Observations from Shea today...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think they need Affeldt in the pen where he is now established as an effective LH Reliever. I know people knock Affeldt, but he is what everyone hopes Bray will eventually be.

    I'd stick with Belisle a little longer. If he doesn't get it together, I'd try Justin Lehr. I'd leave Fogg in long relief.
    Great point. Bray has cetainly been underwhelming so far.

    I credit Dusty though for putting Bray in low pressure situations and giving him a chance to prove he's a major leaguer. Let's hope Bray can string a few good appearances together. He wasn't very impressive on Sunday.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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