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Thread: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    ON THE ROTATION: The Reds are listing TBA for Wednesday and Thursday. Bronson Arroyo will likely start on short rest Wednesday. I asked Dusty Baker if Matt Belisle would definitely make his next start: "We haven't discussed it yet. I don't want him walking around here like he's on death row."
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    Now there's a good idea. Take a guy who thought was injured, have him throw 115 pitches, and then bring him back on short rest.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    Arroyo's been known to do pretty well on short rest...

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    Re: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Now there's a good idea. Take a guy who thought was injured, have him throw 115 pitches, and then bring him back on short rest.
    Makes no sense does it? Just make the decision on Belisle already. If they don't want him in the rotation send him down and bring up Lehr for a game or pitch Affeldt or Fogg for one game until they can get whatever changes they need done. Sounds like Belisle may be finished, though, as a starter.

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    Boom Goes the Dynamite Screwball's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Now there's a good idea. Take a guy who thought was injured, have him throw 115 pitches, and then bring him back on short rest.
    Now just what the heck is wrong with that?


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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Now there's a good idea. Take a guy who thought was injured, have him throw 115 pitches, and then bring him back on short rest.
    All hail Dustyball.
    Go Gators!

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    Re: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Now there's a good idea. Take a guy who thought was injured, have him throw 115 pitches, and then bring him back on short rest.
    If I recall, like Matt said, he is pretty good on short rest. Sure we will see the numbers on Wed.

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    Re: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    I wouldn't take Arroyo's "success" last night as a sign of turnaround. He was chuckin' and duckin'--and because it was a doubleheader and a long day, Mets hitters were swinging. Two balls that would have been gone in most parks found gloves yesterday because it was played in Shea. I'll give Arroyo credit for throwing strikes and not walking the bases full all day, but don't kid yourself about his effectiveness. He looked the same as any of the other bad starts.

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    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    I thought his stuff had more stuff to it last night, which is why he was getting people out. Hopefully it continues.

    I'm not going to make excuses on why he pitched well...that's stupid.
    Last edited by Matt700wlw; 05-11-2008 at 01:45 PM.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I wouldn't take Arroyo's "success" last night as a sign of turnaround. He was chuckin' and duckin'--and because it was a doubleheader and a long day, Mets hitters were swinging. Two balls that would have been gone in most parks found gloves yesterday because it was played in Shea. I'll give Arroyo credit for throwing strikes and not walking the bases full all day, but don't kid yourself about his effectiveness. He looked the same as any of the other bad starts.
    He chucked and ducked his way to 9 stikeouts and only 2 walks in 8 IP. Perception is a powerful thing.

    You're right, he wasn't much different than the past outings. Last night's start was is the flip side of the exact same coin. The primary difference is that the ball didn't leave the yard and batted balls found fielders. That's really the whole point. Judging a pitcher by the number of earned runs allowed in a single start, or small groups of starts, simply isn't a very good way of evaluating how well he's pitching.

    For what it's worth, Arroyo's FIP is at 4.96 on the season. That's one more good outing from being right in line with his career norm.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    I actually agree with FCB on this one. I don't think Arroyo looked as good as his pitching line from last night suggests, and I think it's really stupid to throw him on 3-days rest after 115 pitches for a game in May.

    We have alternatives in triple-A to fill Belisle's spot in the rotation, and as I stated in the recently-revived Belisle thread from the off-season think the guy should have been non-tendered.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

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    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    I've watched everyone of Bronson's starts this year, and while I'm no Dave Duncan, it's obvious he was a step above last night. Especially in the later innings...he was nearly untouchable. But I'm sure the Mets were just tired.

    As is custom with all too many Cincy fans, when someone succeeds it's because of factors out of his control. When he fails, it's all his fault.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

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    Re: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    Arroyo's been known to do pretty well on short rest...
    Actually, I was thinking the opposite. I'm pretty sure too that when he throws a high number of pitches the next time out he's not nearly as effective. If they don't want to start Belisle they should bring someone up like Lehr or Shearn. They can't do much worse than Belisle.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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    Re: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    He chucked and ducked his way to 9 stikeouts and only 2 walks in 8 IP. Perception is a powerful thing.

    You're right, he wasn't much different than the past outings. Last night's start was is the flip side of the exact same coin. The primary difference is that the ball didn't leave the yard and batted balls found fielders. That's really the whole point. Judging a pitcher by the number of earned runs allowed in a single start, or small groups of starts, simply isn't a very good way of evaluating how well he's pitching.

    For what it's worth, Arroyo's FIP is at 4.96 on the season. That's one more good outing from being right in line with his career norm.
    If he threw half his starts at Shea, no problem. Arroyo hasn't been unlucky. He's been bad. But I'm certain if he ends the season with 7 + ERA, .875 OPSA, someone will still discover that his FIP 5.00, good enough to be a 5th starter or something. Just as some folks did with Milton.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo to Start on Short Rest; Belisle Up in the Air

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    If he threw half his starts at Shea, no problem. Arroyo hasn't been unlucky. He's been bad.
    If he throws 175 IP or more with an ERA north of 6.00, I'll send you 50 bucks.

    Bad and unlucky aren't mutually exclusive. He's certainly not been good. But his luck has made it look worse than it is.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


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