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Thread: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

  1. #46
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    Dunn since 2004 --

    46/102
    40/101
    40/92
    40/106

    Last year Dunn hit quite well overall, higher BA, and the RBI total was pretty good. Still has never made it to 110 or above.

    Others are all over the map. Thome last year at 35/96. Holliday last year at 35/137.
    Last edited by Kc61; 05-12-2008 at 11:42 AM.

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  3. #47
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Others are all over the map. .

    That's because RBI is a team dependent stat.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  4. #48
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    That's because RBI is a team dependent stat.

    In part, Raisor. But it is also because of production in non-home run situations. A .350 hitter typically will get a bunch of RBIs from non-home run at bats, singles and doubles. A .250 hitter, with far fewer singles and doubles, may get fewer RBIs overall.

    Yes, RBI is team dependent, obviously. But Matt Holliday got more RBIs than Dunn, in part, because he hit .340 and Dunn hit .264. Holliday had 216 base hits overall, Adam had 138.

  5. #49
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Is it really all that rare? Research tells us it's not. In 2007 Prince Fielder hit 50 HR and drove in 119 Runs. Remove 10 solo shots and you have 40 HR and 109 RBI; which would be three more RBI than Dunn posted. Others recently:

    Derrek Lee 2005: 46 HR/107 RBI
    Barry Bonds 2004: 45 HR/101 RBI
    Jim Thome 2004: 42 HR/105 RBI
    Jim Edmonds 2004: 42 HR/111 RBI
    Moises Alou 2004: 39 HR/106 RBI
    Barry Bonds 2003: 45 HR/90 RBI
    Javy Lopez 2003: 43 HR/109 RBI
    Sammy Sosa 2003: 40 HR/103 RBI
    Jeff Bagwell 2003: 39 HR/100 RBI
    Jim Edmonds 2003: 39 HR/89 RBI
    Sammy Sosa 2002: 49 HR/108 RBI
    Barry Bonds 2002: 46 HR/110 RBI
    Vlad Guerrero 2002: 39 HR/111 RBI
    Barry Bonds 2000: 49 HR/106 RBI
    Garry Sheffield 2000: 43 HR/109 RBI
    Jim Edmonds 2000: 42 HR/108 RBI

    If 40 Home Runs makes you a shoe-in for the mythical annual 135 RBI plane of existence, then how'd all that happen?
    Over the past four years Dunn has averaged 100 RBI/yr. There's only two on the your list that are under that number. One was a sub 40 HR year and the other was a year in which Bonds had only 390 ABs. Dunn's last 4 years have included well over 500 ABs. That's a lot of chances to drive in runs that Bonds didn't have. Come to think of it, Jim Edmonds also had less than 450 ABs.

    If you're saying Dunn is adept at driving in runs have at it. I'm saying he's not and that's why he belongs in the #2 slot.

  6. #50
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I wouldn't blame the lineup. He can't hit with RISP. His career avg of .221 in such situations has to be historically low. Even Dave Kingman bested that by 20 pts. You can't have a guy in the middle of your lineup hitting .221 w/RISP. Because of that he might as well hit 2nd.

    It's tough to hit 40 HRs and only knock in 100 but that's been Dunn's pattern. That's another rare skill this guy's got.
    I was waiting for the Kingman reference, and there it is.

    RedsZone wouldn't be the same without Dunn being compared to Kingman on a regular basis.

  7. #51
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    That's because RBI is a team dependent stat.
    Doesn't seem to effect Dunn. Even in 2005 when the Reds led the league in runs scored Dunn's RBI total hovered around 100...didn't vary much from today's offensively challenged Reds team

  8. #52
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Yes, RBI is team dependent, obviously. But Matt Holliday got more RBIs than Dunn, in part, because he hit .340 and Dunn hit .264. Holliday had 216 base hits overall, Adam had 138.
    Holliday hitting 3rd all year helped a bit as well.

  9. #53
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    While Dunn might not be racking up the RBIs, he's certainly not lacking in creating runs.

    As long as he continues to create runs, he's doing his job, wouldn't you say? Or does he have to create runs with his RBIs?

  10. #54
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    In part, Raisor. But it is also because of production in non-home run situations. A .350 hitter typically will get a bunch of RBIs from non-home run at bats, singles and doubles. A .250 hitter, with far fewer singles and doubles, may get fewer RBIs overall.

    Yes, RBI is team dependent, obviously. But Matt Holliday got more RBIs than Dunn, in part, because he hit .340 and Dunn hit .264. Holliday had 216 base hits overall, Adam had 138.
    Maybe it had to do with Holliday getting 50 more PA's with runners on, too.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  11. #55
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    This is where the whole Dunn/OBP stat becomes interesting. Dunn walks a lot, which helps with runs scored but doesn't help much with RBIs. Guys seldom get RBIs from walks (bases must be loaded, etc.)

    But Dunn doesn't get a lot of hits. In the last three season he has had 134, 131, and 138 hits, respectively. This hurts his ability to knock in runs because, obviously, when you don't homer the way to get lots of RBIs is through timely singles and doubles.

    So Dunn's strengths are homers, naturally, and walks leading sometimes to runs scored. But he gets too few base hits to be a very high RBI man. That's just his skill set, some very good strengths, but some areas not so strong.

  12. #56
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  13. #57
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    I seem to remember reading an article earlier in the season (maybe ST), that Dusty doesn't have a very high regard for stats. Unfortunately, some managers think they are smarter than what the numbers suggest and/or prove.

    Well, when the "smarts" start failing you, seems a smart manger would try going with what the numbers are shouting in his ear. What can it hurt? And it might even help.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  14. #58
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    Dusty seems to approach his roster from a fixed view of what it should look like. He then tries to map his talent to that fixed structure. That means Dunn is an "RBI guy", regardless of how his skill set may be better leveraged; In the same way, Corey Patterson is a leadoff man.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  15. #59
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    I was waiting for the Kingman reference, and there it is.

    RedsZone wouldn't be the same without Dunn being compared to Kingman on a regular basis.
    Where's the love for Rob Deer comps?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  16. #60
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    Re: John Erardi Gets It -- "Who's Counting"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    In part, Raisor. But it is also because of production in non-home run situations. A .350 hitter typically will get a bunch of RBIs from non-home run at bats, singles and doubles. A .250 hitter, with far fewer singles and doubles, may get fewer RBIs overall.

    Yes, RBI is team dependent, obviously. But Matt Holliday got more RBIs than Dunn, in part, because he hit .340 and Dunn hit .264. Holliday had 216 base hits overall, Adam had 138.
    Matt Holliday had 307 AB with Runners On in 2007. Dunn had 241. In those AB, Holliday saw 415 Runners on. Dunn saw 330 ducks on the pond during his AB. Holliday drove in 28.7% of the Runners he saw during his AB and Dunn drove in 26.4% of his Runners as a result of his AB. Apply Dunn's rate to Holliday's opportunity and you have an RBI total of 110 RBI with Runners On. Add in Dunn's solo HR and you have 129 RBI, which would certainly be enough to impress even Marty Brennaman.

    Dunn isn't deficient in this area. Never has been.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch thatís over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.Ē
    --Ted Williams


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