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Thread: OF Defense

  1. #1
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    OF Defense

    I know this isn't news, but todays game really highlighted perhaps the weakest part of this team -- namely outfield defense. It's not just the ball misplayed that hurts -- it's the extra at bats given to guys when the inning should have been over. Junior's defense led to multiple runs today, both directly and indirectly.

    Junior can't run or throw. Freel can run but not always in the right direction. Dunn is always an adventure. Patterson plays a good CF but his craptastic bat more than offsets the gain.

    The best way this team can improve it's pitching is fixing that OF defense. If the Reds care about winning this year, the OF defense needs to be fixed.

    The Reds are last in baseball this year in team defensive efficiency rating at 67.9% (percentage of balls in play becoming outs) and it's not a result of errors. Reds are middle of the pack with Reached Base due to Error, allowing 15 runners -- values range between 10 and 21.

    Between his hitting and fielding, or more precisely the lackthereof, Junior has been a replacement level player this year at best. I know we've got pitching problems, but our defense is exacerbating it allowing extra runners. We're not going to fix the pitching issues until the OF defense in particular is improved.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  3. #2
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: OF Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I know this isn't news, but todays game really highlighted perhaps the weakest part of this team -- namely outfield defense. It's not just the ball misplayed that hurts -- it's the extra at bats given to guys when the inning should have been over. Junior's defense led to multiple runs today, both directly and indirectly.

    Junior can't run or throw. Freel can run but not always in the right direction. Dunn is always an adventure. Patterson plays a good CF but his craptastic bat more than offsets the gain.

    The best way this team can improve it's pitching is fixing that OF defense. If the Reds care about winning this year, the OF defense needs to be fixed.

    The Reds are last in baseball this year in team defensive efficiency rating at 67.9% (percentage of balls in play becoming outs) and it's not a result of errors. Reds are middle of the pack with Reached Base due to Error, allowing 15 runners -- values range between 10 and 21.

    Between his hitting and fielding, or more precisely the lackthereof, Junior has been a replacement level player this year at best. I know we've got pitching problems, but our defense is exacerbating it allowing extra runners. We're not going to fix the pitching issues until the OF defense in particular is improved.
    Jay Bruce plays a nice RF.
    .

  4. #3
    Oy Vey! Red in Chicago's Avatar
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    Re: OF Defense

    I'm absolutely amazed at how much range he has lost even from last year. And he rarely even bothers to make a throw. The pop in his bat is needed real soon.

  5. #4
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    Re: OF Defense

    At this point, we're talking about day-to-day survival with this team; not winning. Keep Patterson in CF every day, and bat him 8th. No one will ever move or demote Griffey to supersub, so just cross your fingers when a ball gets hit out to him.

  6. #5
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: OF Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    At this point, we're talking about day-to-day survival with this team; not winning. Keep Patterson in CF every day, and bat him 8th. No one will ever move or demote Griffey to supersub, so just cross your fingers when a ball gets hit out to him.
    I'm not sure I follow. What does survival look like? I've always found a team unwilling to address it's problems as it limps to 75 wins much more demoralizing than an honest attempt to make things better, even if it means fewer wins this year.

    I'm not talking about rebuilding, but they need to figure out the right mix -- and Junior isn't part of it. We really need him to hit 3 HR so we can send him on his way.

    I wonder if Castellini realizes that his "win now" dictate ironically makes it no easier to win in the short term, while likely making it harder to win in the long run. The longer this year's "now" goes on, the harder it's going to be in next year's "now".
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: OF Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I'm not sure I follow. What does survival look like? I've always found a team unwilling to address it's problems as it limps to 75 wins much more demoralizing than an honest attempt to make things better, even if it means fewer wins this year.

    I'm not talking about rebuilding, but they need to figure out the right mix -- and Junior isn't part of it. We really need him to hit 3 HR so we can send him on his way.

    I wonder if Castellini realizes that his "win now" dictate ironically makes it more difficult to win in the long term and no easier to win in the short term.
    No one wants Griffey. The only thing they can do is release him and pay him to sit at home, or on another team's bench.

  8. #7
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: OF Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Keep Patterson in CF every day, and bat him 8th.

    CF bats leadoff.
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  9. #8
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: OF Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Keep Patterson in CF every day, and bat him 8th.
    Just release Patterson, replacement level production would be a VAST improvement.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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    Re: OF Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    Just release Patterson, replacement level production would be a VAST improvement.
    Good luck finding a CF.

    I know who needs to be released, but it's not going to happen.

    If your point was "they should never have traded Denorfia for McBeth," I'd be right there with you. But that's blood under the bridge. As it stands, there's only one plus CF in this team's system and his name is Patterson, for better or worse.
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 05-11-2008 at 05:11 PM.

  11. #10
    Raaaaaaaandy guttle11's Avatar
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    Re: OF Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Good luck finding a CF.

    I know who needs to be released, but it's not going to happen.
    I can find a CF that will play virtually the same defense and probably hit just as poorly in less than 1 second. Chris Dickerson.
    "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. Thatís the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

  12. #11
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    Re: OF Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11 View Post
    I can find a CF that will play virtually the same defense and probably hit just as poorly in less than 1 second. Chris Dickerson.
    Heck, Dickerson would probably have an on-base percentage 50 points higher than Patterson. Then again that still isn't saying much when Patterson's on-base percentage is only .252.

    Here's one of my favorite lines so far this season: Corey Patterson's line in his last 28 days is .150/.215/.217/.432 over 66 total plate appearances. I think one of the goals I'm looking forward to this season is Patterson getting 510 PAs while posting a .250 on-base percentage.
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  13. #12
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: OF Defense

    Dickerson would be hitting better than Patterson right now, and he can play defense just as well.

    But Patterson is one of Dusty's dude's and is making $3 mil. You'll see plenty of Dickerson and Bruce by the end of the year, though.
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  14. #13
    Oy Vey! Red in Chicago's Avatar
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    Re: OF Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Heck, Dickerson would probably have an on-base percentage 50 points higher than Patterson. Then again that still isn't saying much when Patterson's on-base percentage is only .252.

    Here's one of my favorite lines so far this season: Corey Patterson's line in his last 28 days is .150/.215/.217/.432 over 66 total plate appearances. I think one of the goals I'm looking forward to this season is Patterson getting 510 PAs while posting a .250 on-base percentage.
    There is nothing that the dude won't swing at. Last week was the first time I've seen him live and in person since his Chicago days. I was amazed at how bad that stroke has become. Didn't like the guy in a Cubs uni, really dislike him in a Reds uni. The "d" is still there, but the entire outfield needs an overhaul real quick.

  15. #14
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    Re: OF Defense

    How about the following in-depth analysis of the problem:

    The Reds need a new outfield. Period. Or at least two new members of that outfield.
    Last edited by Kc61; 05-11-2008 at 05:47 PM.

  16. #15
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    Re: OF Defense

    Bring up Dickerson; he'll OPS in the same neighborhood as Patt. for MLB minimum. Then they can swallow another contract.


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