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Thread: How much offense do you need from a gold glover?

  1. #1
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    How much offense do you need from a gold glover?

    IMO shortstop, catcher & centerfield are 'defense first' positions.
    Find a guy who can play A or B grade defense at these spots and get your offense from the other five positions.

    OPS (all gold glove winners):
    Erstad .702 2002
    Vizquel .691 2005, .749 2006
    Izturis .710 2004
    Ausmus .593 2006, .675 2002, .625 2001

    These are just examples. I have been thinking recently about a guy like Patterson or Janish in AAA. These guys can really play defense but have weak sticks. For truly gold glove defense ( ie top 1-2 in NL ) at SS,CF & C what OPS are you willing to accept?
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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: How much offense do you need from a gold glover?

    It depends.

    If the rest of the team is stacked with offensive players, you can afford to carry someone for his glove.

    It's about Run Differential.

    I just looked, and those RC/27s for Ausmus in 01, 02, and 06 are just sick bad.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  4. #3
    Member Crosley68's Avatar
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    Re: How much offense do you need from a gold glover?

    I think it depends on what they have around them. Geronimo and Conception, gold glovers batting 7 and 8, didnt have much pressure to perform offensively. Of course both did contribute a few well above "tolerable" years at the plate.
    Let's play two!!!

  5. #4
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: How much offense do you need from a gold glover?

    Here are the current positional averages for both leagues.

    SS-703
    2B-718
    C-734
    CF-740
    LF-763
    3B-769
    RF-775
    1B-795

    The further from average you are, the more important defense gets. I do believe that there is a level where no amount of defense is going to make up for your offense.

    I'd venture to guess that Ausmus was at that point
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  6. #5
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: How much offense do you need from a gold glover?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Here are the current positional averages for both leagues.

    SS-703
    2B-718
    C-734
    CF-740
    LF-763
    3B-769
    RF-775
    1B-795

    The further from average you are, the more important defense gets. I do believe that there is a level where no amount of defense is going to make up for your offense.

    I'd venture to guess that Ausmus was at that point
    1. thanks

    2. interesting that everyone hates Patterson yet his career OPS of 711 is just 30 points below average ( and his defense is above average )

    3. The Reds do/will have some good bats:
    Votto-EE-Bruce will be a mean 3-4-5.
    Phillips has an above average bat to go with his great glove.
    Even at 3B Kep's OPS would be above average.
    People here seem to be much more intersted in offense than defense but I think that the Reds could carry two weak sticks IF they were superior glovemen.
    .

  7. #6
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: How much offense do you need from a gold glover?

    A lot of offense because you can't really win the gold glove without a lot of offense...
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #7
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: How much offense do you need from a gold glover?

    Paul Janish is about to give us an idea...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  9. #8
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: How much offense do you need from a gold glover?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Paul Janish is about to give us an idea...
    I saw he had an OPS of .774 in AAA. If he could do this in Cinci he'd be great.
    His glovework was pretty awesome this spring.
    .

  10. #9
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: How much offense do you need from a gold glover?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    2. interesting that everyone hates Patterson yet his career OPS of 711 is just 30 points below average ( and his defense is above average )
    If he was doing that this season while batting 7th or 8th, they probably wouldn't hate him, though.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons


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