How much offense do you need from a gold glover?

[Will M]

IMO shortstop, catcher & centerfield are 'defense first' positions.
Find a guy who can play A or B grade defense at these spots and get your offense from the other five positions.

OPS (all gold glove winners):
Erstad .702 2002
Vizquel .691 2005, .749 2006
Izturis .710 2004
Ausmus .593 2006, .675 2002, .625 2001

These are just examples. I have been thinking recently about a guy like Patterson or Janish in AAA. These guys can really play defense but have weak sticks. For truly gold glove defense ( ie top 1-2 in NL ) at SS,CF & C what OPS are you willing to accept?

[Raisor]

It depends.

If the rest of the team is stacked with offensive players, you can afford to carry someone for his glove.

It's about Run Differential.

I just looked, and those RC/27s for Ausmus in 01, 02, and 06 are just sick bad.

[Crosley68]

I think it depends on what they have around them. Geronimo and Conception, gold glovers batting 7 and 8, didnt have much pressure to perform offensively. Of course both did contribute a few well above "tolerable" years at the plate.

[Raisor]

Here are the current positional averages for both leagues.

SS-703
2B-718
C-734
CF-740
LF-763
3B-769
RF-775
1B-795

The further from average you are, the more important defense gets. I do believe that there is a level where no amount of defense is going to make up for your offense.

I'd venture to guess that Ausmus was at that point

[Will M]

Here are the current positional averages for both leagues.

SS-703
2B-718
C-734
CF-740
LF-763
3B-769
RF-775
1B-795

The further from average you are, the more important defense gets. I do believe that there is a level where no amount of defense is going to make up for your offense.

I'd venture to guess that Ausmus was at that point

1. thanks

2. interesting that everyone hates Patterson yet his career OPS of 711 is just 30 points below average ( and his defense is above average )

3. The Reds do/will have some good bats:
Votto-EE-Bruce will be a mean 3-4-5.
Phillips has an above average bat to go with his great glove.
Even at 3B Kep's OPS would be above average.
People here seem to be much more intersted in offense than defense but I think that the Reds could carry two weak sticks IF they were superior glovemen.

[blumj]

2. interesting that everyone hates Patterson yet his career OPS of 711 is just 30 points below average ( and his defense is above average )

If he was doing that this season while batting 7th or 8th, they probably wouldn't hate him, though.

[jojo]

A lot of offense because you can't really win the gold glove without a lot of offense...

[*BaseClogger*]

Paul Janish is about to give us an idea...

[Will M]

Paul Janish is about to give us an idea...

I saw he had an OPS of .774 in AAA. If he could do this in Cinci he'd be great.
His glovework was pretty awesome this spring.