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Thread: thumbs still bad?

  1. #181
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    Yep, Latin America is about their only chance to "develop" anything.
    Why is that?

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  3. #182
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Why is that?
    just jumping in, but I'd say the international scouts have a better eye for pitching talent than the domestic scouts. Plus the instructors (Soto) at the dominican academy are a better starting point than those in Billings, Dayton, Sarasota.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  4. #183
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Why is that?
    I was responding and agreeing with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    The list of Reds developed pitchers in the past decade starts and ends with Johnny Cueto.

    And he wasn't even a draft pick.

  5. #184
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    I was responding and agreeing with this.
    I know, but why is it your opinion that the Reds can magically produce better international FA pitchers than domestic pitchers when for at least 2-3 years they will be getting the exact same coaching.

  6. #185
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I know, but why is it your opinion that the Reds can magically produce better international FA pitchers than domestic pitchers when for at least 2-3 years they will be getting the exact same coaching.
    Maybe because they can't understand English.

    That or maybe by pitching year round in VZ or DR their whole life they are more of a finished product.

    Let's face it, they do a pretty weak job developing pitchers in the draft. Maybe it's just a coincidence. Maybe they stink at developing them all and Cueto can't understand what Dick Pole is saying. I don't know.

  7. #186
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    Another possibility.

    I think it takes a heckuva lot more courage, strength, and will to leave your country, where all you have ever known exists, and come to this country with not much in your pockets to try and make a life for yourself and your family.

    My opinion is that American kids aren't looking at baseball the way the kids from VZ and DR are - as a way for a better life, to put food on the table and feed hungry tummies back home.

    It is my opinion that American kids, at least today, are different. They are softer. They have other options. They like to play video games. They like to surf the internet. They are consumed with the cell phones and ipods. They even like to hunt and fish. Kids like Johnny Cueto and Edinson Volquez play baseball and only baseball nearly every day of their lives. They know it will be the only way they can escape the poverty that is all around them. As children, they play baseball with anything round they can get their hands on. They'll use any stick for a bat. They love the game more than anything and they are hungry.

    It is also my opinion that maybe an organization that does more harm than good when developing pitching, will be more harmful to the kid that is softer and more pliable. Kids from Latin America are more sure of themselves. More hungry. More cocky. And probably less likely to freak out when things aren't going their way. Not having Mommy and Daddy or their PS3 to run too when things get bad makes them tougher and more likely to succeed. Especially in the pitching black hole that is the Reds farm system.

    Hopefully they continue to listen to the Mario Soto's and stay very far away from the Dick Pole's.

  8. #187
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    Another possibility.

    I think it takes a heckuva lot more courage, strength, and will to leave your country, where all you have ever known exists, and come to this country with not much in your pockets to try and make a life for yourself and your family.

    My opinion is that American kids aren't looking at baseball the way the kids from VZ and DR are - as a way for a better life, to put food on the table and feed hungry tummies back home.

    It is my opinion that American kids, at least today, are different. They are softer. They have other options. They like to play video games. They like to surf the internet. They are consumed with the cell phones and ipods. They even like to hunt and fish. Kids like Johnny Cueto and Edinson Volquez play baseball and only baseball nearly every day of their lives. They know it will be the only way they can escape the poverty that is all around them. As children, they play baseball with anything round they can get their hands on. They'll use any stick for a bat. They love the game more than anything and they are hungry.

    It is also my opinion that maybe an organization that does more harm than good when developing pitching, will be more harmful to the kid that is softer and more pliable. Kids from Latin America are more sure of themselves. More hungry. More cocky. And probably less likely to freak out when things aren't going their way. Not having Mommy and Daddy or their PS3 to run too when things get bad makes them tougher and more likely to succeed. Especially in the pitching black hole that is the Reds farm system.

    Hopefully they continue to listen to the Mario Soto's and stay very far away from the Dick Pole's.

    Reds' minor leaguers have been going Wii on your lawn?
    Last edited by princeton; 06-18-2008 at 03:59 PM.

  9. #188
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    Reds' minor leaguers have been going Wii on your lawn?

  10. #189
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    Reds' minor leaguers have been going Wii on your lawn?
    If I didn't know better I'd think you've somehow managed to grow a funny bone in the lab.


    GL

  11. #190
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Here's some info:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...2008&fext=.jsp

    SD State RHP Steve Strasburg and Cartersville, GA OF Donovan Tate are the top pick favorites.
    Gracias, M2.

  12. #191
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    Happy Birthday, Devin! Today is D's 20th birthday.

  13. #192
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    Here's some info:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...2008&fext=.jsp

    SD State RHP Steve Strasburg and Cartersville, GA OF Donovan Tate are the top pick favorites.
    Going to be a good year to have a top 10 pick, I think. Reds may be there.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  14. #193
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Mediocre hitting gold glove centerfielders are a dime a dozen? Man, wish we had a dozen of those over the last 5 years when we sorely needed one.

    We need one now and we'll need one next year and the year after that.

  15. #194
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    We have one that they won't even try. Chris Dickerson.

    AAA numbers 2007-2008

    623 PA, 528 AB, 139 hits, .263 BA, 16 2B, 12 3B, 16 HR, 88 Runs, 70 RBI, 77 BB, 8 HBP, 35 for 45 stealing (77.7&#37, 181 Ks, 10 SAC/SF, .360 OBP, 227 TB, .430 SP, .790 OPS
    .097 IsoD, .167 IsoP

    This equates to a full season of baseball at AAA. He has excellent plate discipline, draws walks, a bit better than average power, excellent speed, and is an excellent defensive player. He does strike out too much but he does it swinging at strikes, a distinction that isn't unimportant. To me he looks 100% better than Corey Patterson and his IsoD would indicate he could sustain similar numbers moving up, provide similar defensive play to Patterson with similar power. Jeezall Pete Reds - at least give this guy a shot!

  16. #195
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: thumbs still bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    We have one that they won't even try. Chris Dickerson.

    AAA numbers 2007-2008

    623 PA, 528 AB, 139 hits, .263 BA, 16 2B, 12 3B, 16 HR, 88 Runs, 70 RBI, 77 BB, 8 HBP, 35 for 45 stealing (77.7%), 181 Ks, 10 SAC/SF, .360 OBP, 227 TB, .430 SP, .790 OPS
    .097 IsoD, .167 IsoP

    This equates to a full season of baseball at AAA. He has excellent plate discipline, draws walks, a bit better than average power, excellent speed, and is an excellent defensive player. He does strike out too much but he does it swinging at strikes, a distinction that isn't unimportant. To me he looks 100% better than Corey Patterson and his IsoD would indicate he could sustain similar numbers moving up, provide similar defensive play to Patterson with similar power. Jeezall Pete Reds - at least give this guy a shot!
    The knock on Dickerson is that his bat speed isn't sufficient for the majors to have sustained success. I'm just guessing here but he probably get's by down there by feasting on lots of guys who don't have the great fastballs and feasts on alot of off speed stuff.

    They are seemingly similiar players but have different weaknesses, Patterson OTOH has very good bat speed but has the discipline of a......Corey Patterson.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes


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