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Thread: Trade Musings

  1. #1
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Trade Musings

    In an effort to take this discussion (potential trades in general) in a slightly different direction (other than trade Jr! trade Dunn! trade whomever!), I wonder if we might use this space to murmur about potential targets off the beaten path.

    Let me toss one out for criticism (illumine me if you know why this is a bad thought) or discussion:

    Catcher Max Ramirez in the Rangers organization.

    He is 23 years old (will not be 24 until November), and playing at AA. Ahead of him in the organization are Laird, Salty, and Teagarden (in theory). Ramirez at AA this year?

    146 at bats (in 41 games) .377/.450/.658 That leads to an eye-popping 1.108 OPS. 9 homeruns. He's struck out 35 times and drawn 20 walks.

    His baseball cube entry is here:

    http://www.thebaseballcube.com/playe...-Ramirez.shtml

    He participated in the 2007 Futures Game for the World Team.

    Anywho, I am NOT one of the experts we have on this board with regard to minor league stuff, in terms of projectability and what not. What I do notice with this guy is that he has put up OPS' in the .900 neighborhood for a few years, is raking this year, and is behind a number of catchers in the Rangers organization. An organization that is desperate for pitching.

    IF this guy is a decent prospect, and on the surface he appears to be, this is the kind of player that I hope Walt J. and the scouts are noticing and targeting. I would imagine there is a fit between these two orgaizations, and clearly the Rangers and Reds should trust each other given how happy each is with Hamilton and Volquez.

    That's my initial suggestion.

    Others? Anyone off the beaten path you would like the Reds to think about targeting?

    Feel free to tell me why my initial suggestion is dumb or, perhaps, not a dumb suggestion. Or ignore. Or what not.

    But I would love to see them find someone like this.
    Last edited by membengal; 05-21-2008 at 12:37 PM.

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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Musings

    The question that seems to pop up with him is about his ability to stay at catcher in the majors from a defensive standpoint.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Musings

    Thanks, flyer. I was wondering about defense. Because the stick appears insane.

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    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    fyi - Mets Shopping Aaron Heilman?

    Mets Shopping Aaron Heilman?
    Adam Rubin of the New York Daily News is hearing buzz from scouts that the Mets are shopping 29 year-old reliever Aaron Heilman. Heilman has a career best strikeout rate in 22.2 innings, but everything else has gone haywire (control, home runs and hits allowed).

    Rubin says the Mets are looking for a setup man in return. It seems that the best fit would be with a noncontending team that would switch Heilman back to starting. The Nationals (Jon Rauch), Reds (David Weathers), and Pirates (Damaso Marte, John Grabow) might have decent relievers available. Not sure if they'd have interest in Heilman, though.

    Heilman will be arbitration-eligible in 2009 and 2010 and will reach free agency after that.
    .

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    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Musings

    He's undersized as well (I think he's only 5-7) which is another reason he might be a bit underrated. Even more reason for us to jump on this now. His value will only go up from here. Our current catchers like Ross aren't good defensively or offensively. If Max Ramirez is good offensively (and he is) he will already have them trumped in one area. As long as he is average defensively I think they should go after him.

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    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Musings

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Thanks, flyer. I was wondering about defense. Because the stick appears insane.
    The Reds need a catcher for the future. Ross/Bako seems ok for this year but I expect Bako to regress and Ross can't hit. I'd like Walt to try to find some 'under the radar' young catcher who can play defense and hit .250
    .

  8. #7
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Musings

    I'd trade any 2 relievers the Mets wanted(other than Burton and Cordero). How about Weathers and Affeldt for Heilman.

    Stuff wise there is nothing wrong with Heilman, just going through a rough spot IMO.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Musings

    Here is a discussion of the Lofton- Max Ramirez trade from last summer.


    http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...07/264566.html


    Ramirez is nearly as familiar with the trade deadline deal as Lofton; this is his second. Last year, the Braves traded him to the Indians for Bob Wickman on July 20. This year with high Class A Kinston, he was hitting .303/.418/.505 with 12 home runs, one shy of his career high (13, last year). He's patient--he just won Best Strike Zone Judgment in our 2007 Best Tools survey of the Carolina League--but will strike out. Defensively, his footwork needs to improve, but he's shown better ability to receive, throw (wiping out 29 percent of opposing basestealers) and handle a pitching staff.

  10. #9
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Musings

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    He's undersized as well (I think he's only 5-7) which is another reason he might be a bit underrated. Even more reason for us to jump on this now. His value will only go up from here. Our current catchers like Ross aren't good defensively or offensively. If Max Ramirez is good offensively (and he is) he will already have them trumped in one area. As long as he is average defensively I think they should go after him.
    Ramirez is 5-11, 175.

  11. #10
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Musings

    I'd be all over Heilman if he's really available.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Trade Musings

    I like Heilman for Weathers plus a C+/B- prospect (system is full of them). Heilman's the type of guy St Louis would turn into a solid 3rd/4th starter. Decent stuff, keeps it down. Would put the Reds pen in some flux, but you have to figure there's somebody on the farm, whether it be Lehr, Adkins, Roenicke, Herrera or whoever, who could provide decent middle relief. The possible upside of converting Heilman successfully is too good not to make an effort to acquire him, if all they're looking for is set-up relief.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  13. #12
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Musings

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Here is a discussion of the Lofton- Max Ramirez trade from last summer.


    http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...07/264566.html
    There you go, sounds like he's not bad defensively at all. I bet the Rangers end up keeping Ramirez and trading another one of their catchers (or two) but if he's available, Jocketty needs to be knocking down some doors to figure out what he needs to do to bring him to Cincinnati. Did I mention I'm sick of running sub-par catchers out there every year like Dave Ross and Jason "Interstate Love Song" LaRue? At least Bako has surprised this year (kind of like Ross did in 2006) but we need a long-term answer. Hopefully the really long-term answer is Mesoraco, but in the meantime, we need someone in their early 20's like Ramirez who will be ready to take over full-time in 2009. The rest of this year it will be Ross and Bako (with a dash of Javy mixed in) but Jocketty needs to improve the position for next year and the years beyond.

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Musings

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    I'd trade any 2 relievers the Mets wanted(other than Burton and Cordero). How about Weathers and Affeldt for Heilman.

    Stuff wise there is nothing wrong with Heilman, just going through a rough spot IMO.
    I've wanted Heilman to anchor the back of our rotation for years now.

    Apparently the Mets are just throwing cash at him to get him to shut up about the fact that he wants to start, rather than come out of the pen.

    Heilman would certainly be a welcomed addition to our staff, and I have a feeling it honestly might only cost us Weathers, Affeldt and maybe another piece (maybe Hopper, once he's healthy?).

  15. #14
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Musings

    I like the Heilman idea as well. He is someone with plus stuff who would be very interesting to give another shot in a rotation.

  16. #15
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Musings

    Randy Wolfe from the Padres would make an interesting pick up. Unfortunately he'd be overpriced, and I wouldn't overpay for him considering he's coming off recent shoulder surgery and there's no telling how long or if his arm will hold up. Still he'd make a nice LH addition to the rotation.
    The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. -- Terrance Mann (Field of Dreams)


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