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Thread: *fires up the time travel portal*...

  1. #1
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    *fires up the time travel portal*...

    Okay guys, I think it's becoming pretty obvious that the Reds will be calling up Jay Bruce within the next week. Let's zoom forward until then and try to figure out what they're going to do with him and the rest of the team.

    First off, what postition does he play? I've heard dozens and dozens of people say that he's "projected" as a right fielder. So does he play there and we bench Junior? I certainly don't see Junior moving back to centerfield. Also, if it's so certain that Jay's a rightfielder...why in the world have the Reds played him out of position so much in Louisville?

    So far this year, Jay has played...
    Right-field: 9 starts
    Left-field: 8 starts
    D.H.: 2 starts
    day off/pinch hit: 3 times
    Center-field: 25 starts!!!

    For a guy who's supposedly not a centerfielder, he sure is being treated as one.

    So instead of following the "projected" route...let's follow along with what the Reds are doing with him. Jay will play Centerfield for the Reds. That means Patterson/Freel combo sits instead of Junior. So, Dunn in left, Bruce in center and Junior in right. Hopefully it'll play out better than it sounds.

    So, now that the defense is situated, now we've got the lineup to consider. Without Freel, Patterson or Keppinger starting...who's leading off and why?

    Personally, I'd lean towards something like this....

    (RH) 2B Phillips
    (LH) LF Dunn
    (LH) CF Bruce
    (RH) 3B Encarnacion
    (LH) 1B Votto
    (LH) RF Griffey
    (RH) SS Janish
    (LH) C Bako
    Pitchers spot

    Without a true leadoff hitter, I think we need to at least minimize our hitters' shortcomings. Brandon loves to line into DP's. Leading off will minimize that. Dunn's OBP needs to be MUCH higher up in the lineup. Personally, I'd love to see Adam leading off...but I think that's too much of a drastic leap for many here. In regards to the clean up slot, there are 2 players who I don't want to put there. Phillips and Bruce. I know how Brandon hits from that spot and he simply tries to hit the longball way too much. It takes him out of his normal hitting style. As for Jay, I just don't want to put a high amount of pressure on the rookie this early (which is also why I don't put him in the leadoff spot either). I don't mind Joey in the #4 hole, but I think Edwin's a better fit for it. I originally had Bako hitting 7th and Janish hitting 8th, but I didn't like the run of 3 straight lefties of Votto, Griffey and Bako, so I swapped the Paul's.

    I know this topic will get rehashed over and over again in the coming days, I just figured maybe this will limit the talk to one thread...but I doubt it. :O) Anyway, how do YOU see this club a week from now?

    --------------------
    Oops, one last thing. With Jay coming up...who is shown the door? Patterson? Valentine? Ross? Hairston to DL?
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 05-22-2008 at 04:48 PM. Reason: forgot last line
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

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  3. #2
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: *fires up the time travel portal*...

    Phillips at leadoff would be a disaster. That being said I don't know who else to put there right now.

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    Re: *fires up the time travel portal*...

    I don't think Hairston would go to the DL for dehydration. I would guess either trade of Freel, or DFA of Valentin. Valentin is basically worthless this season. I would rather get rid Patterson of course, but I doubt Dusty will let that happen.
    Reds 2010 NL Central Champs

  5. #4
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: *fires up the time travel portal*...

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Phillips at leadoff would be a disaster. That being said I don't know who else to put there right now.
    Yeah, I'm certainly not thrilled with that idea either. But who else are we gonna slot there? He's got speed, he's a smart baserunner, he's hitting for a nice average and he hits to all fields. Certainly not ideal...but like I said, it would minimize his HIDP opportunities at least.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  6. #5
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: *fires up the time travel portal*...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Sabowned View Post
    I don't think Hairston would go to the DL for dehydration. I would guess either trade of Freel, or DFA of Valentin. Valentin is basically worthless this season. I would rather get rid Patterson of course, but I doubt Dusty will let that happen.
    Well, remember that the Reds have "created" injuries in the past to open up slots. So who knows...maybe they'll decide to "play it safe" with Jerry.

    Trading someone would be great to free up the slot AND the payroll, but trades don't just happen. Like everyone clammoring to trade Junior. In order for that to work...you've got to find a trading partner. And at this point of the season, that's not too likely. So yeah, I'd say Javy's the most likely target.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  7. #6
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    Re: *fires up the time travel portal*...

    Without a true leadoff hitter, I think we need to at least minimize our hitters' shortcomings. Brandon loves to line into DP's. Leading off will minimize that. Dunn's OBP needs to be MUCH higher up in the lineup. Personally, I'd love to see Adam leading off...but I think that's too much of a drastic leap for many here. In regards to the clean up slot, there are 2 players who I don't want to put there. Phillips and Bruce. I know how Brandon hits from that spot and he simply tries to hit the longball way too much. It takes him out of his normal hitting style. As for Jay, I just don't want to put a high amount of pressure on the rookie this early (which is also why I don't put him in the leadoff spot either). I don't mind Joey in the #4 hole, but I think Edwin's a better fit for it. I originally had Bako hitting 7th and Janish hitting 8th, but I didn't like the run of 3 straight lefties of Votto, Griffey and Bako, so I swapped the Paul's.

    Lining into double plays is in no way a shortcoming, your goal at the plate is to hit the ball hard, an unfortunate line out that turns into a double play is that, unfortunate. Because of that tendency you in no way move him out of AB's w/runners on base

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    Re: *fires up the time travel portal*...

    Since Dusty is our manager I would go with:
    Votto
    phillips
    griffey
    dunn
    ede
    bruce
    janish
    bako

    If he wasn't and we could have a more logical lineup:
    Votto
    Bruce
    Phillips
    Dunn
    EdE
    Griffey
    Janish
    Bako

    This lineup gives us decent speed at the top in Votto, Bruce and Phillips : Votto did steal 17 or so bases in AAA last year. And should give us some oppurtunities for our "RBI" guys in Dunn EDE and Grif...this also might spark Griffey to get going by dropping in the order, I dont think batting 3rd is as big of a deal to him as people make it seem.

  9. #8
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: *fires up the time travel portal*...

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Lining into double plays is in no way a shortcoming, your goal at the plate is to hit the ball hard, an unfortunate line out that turns into a double play is that, unfortunate. Because of that tendency you in no way move him out of AB's w/runners on base
    Good point. But I'm pretty doubtful about using Joey in the leadoff position too. I'm just not thrilled with the idea of a rook in the one hole. But I don't see many other options either.

    I still like Dunn at leadoff though. He tends to get on base at a very good clip. He also k's a bunch. Those strikeouts will have minimal damage at the leadoff position. Sure, they'll still suck, but they won't be rally killers like they are now.

    I just like the concept of Adam leading off the game and instantly putting pressure on the starting pitcher. Not wanting to throw a gopher-ball makes them want to pitch around him somewhat. Well, a starting pitcher who's just begun the game is NOT in a groove yet. Making him pitch in an uncomfortable situation to start the game is a good thing in my mind.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

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    Re: *fires up the time travel portal*...

    Only problem I have with putting Dunn there is that it minimizes the value of his homers. With the pitcher and catcher hitting "ahead of him", he's likely to end up facing the pitcher with no one on and at least 1 out. if you believe in 9 spot "second leadoff" then you could work around that a bit. I could understand the thinking of putting Phillips there. Maybe "platoon" Freel/Griffey/Patterson in CF and RF with Bruce playing the other with Freel leading off when he plays?

  11. #10
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: *fires up the time travel portal*...

    That'd only be for one or two of his ab's. Once you bring in relief pitchers or defensive subs, you tweak the order a bit to get some bats in front of Adam. We all know Dusty's not against double switching. Besides, currently...Bako and Janish are getting on base at a better clip than who we have in front of Adam right now.

    By the way, on a side note....does anybody know if Edwin has ever played any outfield? He's got excellent quickness, he's got a rifle for an arm, but he always seems to have long strings of problems playing the hot corner. With our plethora of young infielders coming up through Louisville and beyond (Waring, Fransisco & Rosales come to mind just for 3b), wouldn't it be a good idea to consider switching Edwin to a corner OF spot...say....RIGHT field. Dunn/Bruce/Edwin might be pretty good (depending on EE's defensive learning curve). I mention this because I'm looking at this team for next year and right now I'm seeing Dunn & Bruce but nobody else worth mentioning in the other OF spot. Frazier won't be ready (despite what Fay thinks), Stubbs, Dorn, Dickerson...I don't see them being viable options either for 2009. I guess there's always free agency, but when we've got this great minor league system...why go outside when we don't have to. Those big free agent signings have always hurt us in the end from what I can recall. I guess Joey in Right is also another option.

    These injuries are really throwing a wrench in the possibilities. :-(
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 05-22-2008 at 07:10 PM.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

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    Re: *fires up the time travel portal*...

    Anyone listen to Thom on the radio last night complaining that he didn't like the idea of Jay playing center between Dunn and Griffey because center is not his "primary" position?
    Whatcha gonna do, brother, when Brennemania runs wild on you!!

  13. #12
    Attack Cat! OUReds's Avatar
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    Re: *fires up the time travel portal*...

    Well if I'm peeking into the Red's lineup around the first of August, what I hope to see is...

    Freel (RF)
    Keppinger (2b)
    Dunn (LF)
    Encarnacion (3b)
    Bruce (CF)
    Votto (1b)
    Catcher
    Janish (SS)

    I see Phillips, Arroyo, and Griffey shopped for C/SP/OF help at the deadline.

    I hope seeing Dunn in August means an extension, but if there is no intent to sign him, he'll need to be gone as well.

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    Re: *fires up the time travel portal*...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOnlyRedsFan View Post
    Anyone listen to Thom on the radio last night complaining that he didn't like the idea of Jay playing center between Dunn and Griffey because center is not his "primary" position?
    Yeah, I thought he was one of the Redszoners here who cannot fathom Jay Bruce playing Center for the Reds...

    But Hal McCoy was in there and said he talked to Scouts and A lot of people in the Minors and they all had RAVE reviews about Bruce playing Center.

  15. #14
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: *fires up the time travel portal*...

    Quote Originally Posted by OUReds View Post
    Well if I'm peeking into the Red's lineup around the first of August, what I hope to see is...

    Freel (RF)
    Keppinger (2b)
    Dunn (LF)
    Encarnacion (3b)
    Bruce (CF)
    Votto (1b)
    Catcher
    Janish (SS)

    I see Phillips, Arroyo, and Griffey shopped for C/SP/OF help at the deadline.

    I hope seeing Dunn in August means an extension, but if there is no intent to sign him, he'll need to be gone as well.
    Dealing BRANDON?!? Ummm...let me stop you right there. No. With Phillips, you've got a young potent bat with speed, the potential to hit for a nice average and an A+ glove man. All that and he's signed long term for a reasonable amount. Nope, Phillips stays...period.

    I'd hesitate to deal Bronson as well. Sure, he's stuggled this year (and some last year), but overall he's very reliable and for a pitcher of his caliber...his contract is very reasonable as well. Now if Homer (and another...maybe Thompson or Maloney) comes up and does extremely well and Johnny comes around...then I'd possibly consider it. But Homer and the other kids are by no means sure things. If we end up keeping Arroyo AND the kids throw well and succeed...who here would have a problem moving Bronson down in the rotation and have him be our #4 or #5 guy? Besides, he gives our rotation a nice change of pace. Without him, it's all fireballers for the most part. Keeping him brings some balance to our rotation.

    And lastly, while I like Freel, he's simply NOT starter material. Not until he gets his head glued on right. Hustle is great. But INTELLIGENT hustle is even better.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  16. #15
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    Re: *fires up the time travel portal*...

    It is simple.

    Keep:

    Volquez
    Harang
    Cueto
    Arroyo

    Cordero
    Burton

    Dunn
    Phillips
    Votto
    BRUCE (when he is called up)

    Those are the pieces to build around... Not trade off...

    After that, Get rid of the rest of those guys... I am including EE and Kepp.


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