Reds at Padres 5-22-08

[cincyinco]

And because you don't remember it, it didn't happen? riiiiggghhhttt.

I've been told for years how wonderful and brillant all things St. Louis has been for years. If Wayne is going to be pegged for instant results and be asked, "how long does he deserve" if someone defends him, Mr. Baseball from St. Louis deserves the same in return.

Couldn't agree more. And I concur. There were many calling for WK's head early, and the chatter only amplified after the trade.

as an aside - mods... What is wrong with the direction of this thread? I resonded to posts in this thread and we're all having intelligent discourse about the reds and not slinging veiled insults. Personally, for me this has been some of the better discussion on here for a while.

[edabbs44]

And because you don't remember it, it didn't happen? riiiiggghhhttt.

I've been told for years how wonderful and brillant all things St. Louis are. If Wayne is going to be pegged for instant results and be asked, "how long does he deserve" if someone defends him, Mr. Baseball from St. Louis deserves the same in return.

Slight hyperbole. I'd be curious to see evidence of someone calling for Wayne's head in May of 06. Cincy was 27-19 on this date in 2006. If anything, Wayne was still a genius at that point. The dunce cap measurements didn't take place until at least a month or two later, when Stubbs was drafted and the trade went down. And for some, they didn't take place until much, much later.

In addition, Jocketty has a pretty good track record as a GM. I would cut him a little more slack than a rookie GM. But that's just me.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

And because you don't remember it, it didn't happen? riiiiggghhhttt.

I've been told for years how wonderful and brillant all things St. Louis are. If Wayne is going to be pegged for instant results and be asked, "how long does he deserve" if someone defends him, Mr. Baseball from St. Louis deserves the same in return.

I'm not sure I understand this. You reached a bit to take a jab at the members of this board, by saying they were all over Wayne in month four, but have let Walt off the hook in his first month. I think you are exaggerating it both ways.

First off, comparing Wayne in month four to Walt in his first month is unfair. Why would Walt be on the hotseat? So there's really no reason to think people are taking it easy on Walt. Actually, if anything I've seen people complaining that he's not doing enough already. In fact, I would bet there is just as many people that are impatient with Walt right now that were riding Krivsky in month four.

Second, Wayne wasn't on the hotseat in May of 2006. If there were people on this board who wanted him gone in May of 2006, I'm pretty sure those same people wanted him gone the day he was named GM, four months earlier.

The guy had traded for Arroyo who was pitching great. He had picked up Brandon Phillips for free practically. The team was winning. I'm as glass-half-empty as the next guy when it comes to this clumsy franchise, but even I was pretty excited with Wayne in May 2006. The first time I saw a chink in his armor was when he went out of his way and traded for Mr. Juan Castro. That's when I started doubting him. And then came the trade and at that point I, and many others, were very worried.

I'm not trying to be snarky here, but you seem to be either rewriting history or exaggerating it a bit to make a point that the members of this board are being hypocritical. Maybe you don't like Walt and liked Krivsky. I don't know, but your post speaks volumes about how you feel about Walt. Which is ironic considering you were poking fun at members of this board for supposedly wanting WK gone in month four.

[Spring~Fields]

He tried, Castellini didn't listen to anyone, remember?

I fixed that for you, and I agree.

In all seriousness, how would people have reacted if Walt went to the press in January and said that Wayne had built another 90 loss team and should be fired? If Walt came out and said Patterson was a bad sign, and the bullpen was a joke if Lincoln was able to make it? If Walt saw a bad team coming, he can't come out and say it to us while Wayne is still the GM. That cuts Wayne's legs off and it also hurts ticket sales.

He wasn't paid to be special advisor to "us" or the "press". Don't you remember? So how was it, Castellini would not listen to Walt, or Walt badly misjudged this team and gave bad advise to Bob?

Maybe Walt DID see that this was a poorly constructed team, and told Cast that. Cast said "wait and see", and then after the poor start, started to believe Walt...

That makes sense, since Cast obviously listened to Dusty and brought in Patterson, Bako, Hairston and Mercker, his old boys network. That is Cast name on the checks isn't it?

[Bob Borkowski]

I agree. I don't know how long this has been going on today, and I couldn't stay up last night past the 4th inning. This thread however, has de-railed, and this discussion needs to be taken elsewhere for the reason in the post I quoted.

Thanks, Tj.

Harang had things well in-hand just before I went to bed. When I got up and turned on the computer, I decided to simply enjoy the Reds win by following the Game Thread from befinning to end. Things went pretty sour shortly after I wacated last nite obviously. Judging by the tone of the conversation, I assumed the good guys had lost but it was frustrating to hear not word one about the game itself from around the bottom of the seventh on.

[Tommyjohn25]

Thanks, Tj.

Harang had things well in-hand just before I went to bed. When I got up and turned on the computer, I decided to simply enjoy the Reds win by following the Game Thread from befinning to end. Things went pretty sour shortly after I wacated last nite obviously. Judging by the tone of the conversation, I assumed the good guys had lost but it was frustrating to hear not word one about the game itself from around the bottom of the seventh on.

No problem Bob. I see this thread is still in a tailspin too. If you guys want to talk about the game last night, fine. But if it continues how it's going, I'm going to lock it when I get back from the gym.

[cincyinco]

No problem Bob. I see this thread is still in a tailspin too. If you guys want to talk about the game last night, fine. But if it continues how it's going, I'm going to lock it when I get back from the gym.

Why?

How is this thread in a tailspin?

Because its not directly related to the game?

Well, I responded directly to posts in this thread.

Maybe a new thread should be started, but please just say so, instead of giving the impression you're just weilding power and gonna shut things down becuase its not going a particular way.

I'm not trying to be combative, but as far as I see it, we're not breaking any rules. There's no insults being thrown around. Everyone participating is having intelligent discussion about a legit topic. It just happened to start here.

Its not my or anyone else's fault that the PBP stopped when things got cruddy. I'm sorry it stopped, but that doesn't weigh on my conscience. And IMO, this thread is still quality. If you can't enjoy the discussion about the Reds, seems to be your own loss. I understand wanting to read about the game, but again - its not anyone's fault that the PBP stopped and the conversation continued.

Color me confused by your reaction. Like I said, if another thread needs to be started, it seems it would be much easier to just ask to start another thread in regards to the topic at hand instead of proclaiming this thread as "derailed" and that you're going to "shut it down".

I'll ask again. What is the harm? What rules were broken? Were people misbehaving? Were the problems that shut down GTs for a month visible here? I'm not trying to be a problem child, but I really think its a bit of a melodramatic reaction.

:thumbdown

It wasn't the conversation that stopped the PBP from being reported. It was the lack of good play on the field that did. Assuming the things your complaining about wouldn't have happened, I'd argue the PBP would have been just as poor from the 7th on because the product on the field sucked, and pretty much everyone left. The problem that Bob is complaining about, would have remained just the same.

If there are those that truely think the questions I posed in this thread(which was in direct response to comments made in said thread) are what have apparently "derailed" the thread, then I apologize. I'll just remind myself this is another reason to avoid gamethreads.

Its too bad I can't respond directly to posts made within the actual gamethread with my own questions and reservations regarding the Reds, for fear that it might take away from precious play by play.

[Tommyjohn25]

Cincyinco

First off, I would like to apologize for my choice of words with "tailspin", I meant it in a way to suggest that this thread had gotten far off topic from the game. I can see however how it came across as melodramatic. Second, I feel that you took it personally, that's unfortunate, I wan't directing my post at anyone in particular. It can't be denied however, that the topic had gotten far off game thread discussion. It is our responsibilty to keep this forum as clean as possible and that's what I was trying to do. You say that it should have been suggested that a new thread be started before threatning to shut this one down, well, I did that here.

this discussion needs to be taken elsewhere for the reason in the post I quoted.

Yet the conversation continued. I am doing my best to follow the new rules set by our moderator staff. If you feel that you do not want to post in the game threads because of these said rules, then I am sorry. I personally hope you continue since I enjoy your posts. There were no rules broken within the conversation, just where the conversation was taking place. Again, I recognize after re-reading my posts that I used a poor choice of words, and I can see how it looked like I was strong-arming the thread. That was not my intent, and for that I apologize. To be honest with you, I hope you guys do start a new thread. It was a good conversation.

[cincyinco]

My bad, I must have breezed over that one on my blackberry. I certainly appreciate the response. Thank you. To be honest, looking over my posts I was probably a bit melodramatic myself. Sorry bro.

I really like the gamethreads, more than ever, since they came back.. was just thrown for a loop - seeing as I must have missed your post. I don't often start threads, but I may just do so in this case, as I agree - the conversation was excellent. As I said, some of the best I think I've had on here in a while.

Thanks Tommy, and sorry if I got a bit too vested emotionally. I feel like a twit.

[Tommyjohn25]

My bad, I must have breezed over that one on my blackberry. I certainly appreciate the response. Thank you. To be honest, looking over my posts I was probably a bit melodramatic myself. Sorry bro.

I really like the gamethreads, more than ever, since they came back.. was just thrown for a loop - seeing as I must have missed your post. I don't often start threads, but I may just do so in this case, as I agree - the conversation was excellent. As I said, some of the best I think I've had on here in a while.

Thanks Tommy, and sorry if I got a bit too vested emotionally. I feel like a twit.

Hey my man...no problem.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I'm kind of glad cincyinco brought that up, because I was kind of bothered by that as well.

I appreciate your response back to him, tj25.

With that said, if continued discussion of topics that arise while discussing the game is taboo (after the game in question), maybe gamethreads should be locked after the final out. Just a suggestion.

Also, if the gamethread is simply meant to be more of a cliffnotes version of the game for those who missed the game, I apologize.

Hope you had a nice workout. I know I did. When the Reds are playing bad that's the one positive that comes of it for me. The gym.

[Tommyjohn25]

I'm kind of glad cincyinco brought that up, because I was kind of bothered by that as well.

I appreciate your response back to him, tj25.

With that said, if continued discussion of topics that arise while discussing the game is taboo (after the game in question), maybe gamethreads should be locked after the final out. Just a suggestion.

Also, if the gamethread is simply meant to be more of a cliffnotes version of the game for those who missed the game, I apologize.

Hope you had a nice workout. I know I did. When the Reds are playing bad that's the one positive that comes of it for me. The gym.

I did indeed have a nice workout...and you are right, it does help to throw in a few extra reps when the Reds are playing badly!

On topic, what happened wasn't neccessarily "taboo", and I probably made a bigger deal out of it than I should have. I just want to keep the game threads clean and as on topic as possible, and got a "tad" bit irritated when I asked the first time that the discussion be taken elsewhere, and it didn't happen. I understand that it was a late game, and a bad game to boot, but for people that try to follow the thread for "in game info" it gets very difficult to follow. Oh well...you guys really did nothing wrong, and I feel bad that I came across the way I did. I just ask that in the future, if a good debate not related to the game or the events of the game sparks, bring it to the good ol' ORG. It'll be better off there anyways.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

No problem.

Thanks again.