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Thread: Moves Walt Should Make

  1. #1
    Member dunner13's Avatar
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    Moves Walt Should Make

    At this point in the year its not time to give up but I do think its time to play for next year. The moves I would make are...
    1. Trade Griffey. If seattle wants him they can have him. Put Bruce in Right and keep him there til he retires.
    2. Sign Dunn to a long term contract. I know alot of people want to trade him but we have no way to replace his .400OBP and 40 Homeruns.
    3. Trade Arroyo. Even though he has struggled this year plenty of teams would still be interested. Try to get a young catcher for him.
    4. Do the unthinkable and trade Harang. With Volsquez, Cueto, Bailey and Thompson Harang becomes expendable. If the reds can get a close to ready pitching prospect like Crow in the draft they will have even more depth. Try to get a young SS, CF and pitcher for Harang. Hes a stud and could be used to fill alot of holes for us.
    5. Trade hatteberg for whatever you can get for him.
    Let the young kids play the rest of 08 out and hopefully they will be ready to compete for the division in 09.

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    Re: Moves Walt Should Make

    Keep Harang. I'm ok with everything else.
    SECOND PLACE DOESN'T CONCERN ME

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    Member tommycash's Avatar
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    Re: Moves Walt Should Make

    I can go for everything but trading Harang. And I am very shocked that Walt hasn't done anything as GM.
    Jack Eliot: I'm a World Series MVP!
    Skip: That was four years ago, Jack. Last season, you hit .235.
    Jack Eliot: LAST SEASON, I led this team in ninth-inning doubles in the month of August!

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    Re: Moves Walt Should Make

    1. Don't panic...2008 is a dead year..but there is a future.
    2. We lose nearly $34 Million in contracts this off-season
    a. Griff's 9 M (Bruce)
    b. Stanton's 3.5M (currently DFA'd)
    c. Castro 1M (Keppinger/Janish)
    d. Ross 3M (FA)
    e. Hatteburg 1.25M (Keppinger platoon with Votto)
    f. Valentin 2M (Hannigan)
    g. Coffey 950k (Pelland/Roenicke)
    h. Belisle 1.25M (Bailey/Lehr)
    i. Patterson 3M (Freel/FA fine with me)
    j. Fogg 1M (Pelland/Roenicke/Herrara)

    - 24 Million is hardly contributing or is basically hurting the current team.
    3. Dunn (13M) and Affeldt (3M) are the only contracts at play that are guys that bring something to the table that we can't readily replace from farm system.
    4. I'd lean towards trading Dunn and spending the money on RH bat with better defense in LF...but I could as well keep Dunn. Just depends upon terms of contract.
    5. I'd look to see what Arroyo or Freel could fetch in hopes of getting an average catcher and/or CF with good defense.
    6. Any of #2, trade them for waht you can get (Griffey, Hatteberg could have some value)

    In the end, Bruce can be a big upgrade over Griffey, there is money for a RH bat in LF if so desired or for an extra starter in the rotation if Cueto/Bailey ain't going to cut it as a starter.
    Last edited by UK Reds Fan; 05-23-2008 at 11:41 AM. Reason: Incomplete

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    Re: Moves Walt Should Make

    Quote Originally Posted by UK Reds Fan View Post
    1. Don't panic...2008 is a dead year..but there is a future.
    2. We lose nearly $34 Million in contracts this off-season
    But it is what the FO does with that 34 Million... The way they put Money into players over the last few years doesn't make any sense...

  7. #6
    Attack Cat! OUReds's Avatar
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    Re: Moves Walt Should Make

    Quote Originally Posted by dunner13 View Post
    4. Do the unthinkable and trade Harang. With Volsquez, Cueto, Bailey and Thompson Harang becomes expendable. If the reds can get a close to ready pitching prospect like Crow in the draft they will have even more depth. Try to get a young SS, CF and pitcher for Harang. Hes a stud and could be used to fill alot of holes for us.

    Yikes! That would certainly take, as Colbert would say, Huevos Grandes. Thompson and Bailey are far, FAR from sure things to ever contribute to a major league rotation.

    We could expect a return similar to the Bedard and Haren trade I expect. I just don't see getting three major league ready guys for Harang. We could expect one near major league ready guy, but the rest of the return would likely be longer term projects. If you think we're setting up to compete from 2009-2011, I just don't think that's a trade you can make.

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    Re: Moves Walt Should Make

    Patience grasshoppers.
    Who's on first?

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    Re: Moves Walt Should Make

    As much of a mess as the roster has become there are some things that have been done right. Harang is perfect for the Reds, he's signed for cheap considering his production and is a top 5 starter in the national league. Brandon Phillips also fits this mold and unfortunately, so did Josh Hamilton (but that's another story) Basically, I agree with most of what you said except trading Harang. I also don't really like the idea of extending Dunn but if his salary is reasonable and we add another decent RH bat that plays defense to the outfield in center or right to complement Bruce and Dunn, things might actually work out pretty well

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    Re: Moves Walt Should Make

    I'd love to see Griffey traded too, but I really don't see it happening. Besides, we want CF to be the only place open for Bruce so the Corey Patterson era can end ASAP.

    Jocketty needs to Dusty-proof the top of the lineup and improve the bullpen to protect his young pitchers. If they move forward as expected, this team will contend next year. As long as they don't do something monumentally stupid like trade Aaron Harang.
    FIRE DUSTY Never mind. The man is clearly a genius.

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    Re: Moves Walt Should Make

    I like everything except for 2 and 4. By letting Dunn walk, you can go after another player or two via FA and still keep Harang.
    Last edited by 44Magnum; 05-23-2008 at 12:51 PM.
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    Re: Moves Walt Should Make

    Quote Originally Posted by UK Reds Fan View Post
    1. Don't panic...2008 is a dead year..but there is a future.
    2. We lose nearly $34 Million in contracts this off-season
    Sounds good, but you have to factor in the raises for players under contract already as well:

    1. Cordero goes from 8.5 to 12 million (+3.5 million difference)
    2. Harang - 6.75 to 11 (+4.25)
    3. Griffey buyout if he's not traded (+4)
    4. Arroyo - 3.95 to 9.5 (+5.55)
    5. Phillips - 2.75 to 4.75 (+2)
    6. Freel - 3 to 4 (+1)

    That's a little over 20 million $.
    If you ain't first, you're last! - Ricky Bobby

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    Re: Moves Walt Should Make

    Quote Originally Posted by 44Magnum View Post
    I like everything except for 2 and 4. By letting Dunn walk, you can go after another player or two via FA and still keep Harang.
    But what other Free Agents are out there? Vladamir Guerrero and Manny Ramirez are the only top Power Hitting Outfielders on the market besides Dunn?

    The Club will probably pay Griffey the 4 Million Opt out... So Where will the Power Come from? If Griffey is going to be gone, you need to keep AD and sign a Right Handed Hitting Power Hitter to compliment him...

    This team also needs to shore up SS, C, Relief Pitching, and shoot me if you want, 3B...

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    Re: Moves Walt Should Make

    Fire Dusty, bring back WK and resign.

    In all seriousness though. I think if we can't resign Dunn during the season to a reasonable deal, then trade him or let him go (for arbitration picks of course). We can get lots of picks next year if we let Griffey and Dunn go through arbitration or we can get prospects for both.

    Keep Harang, and see if Arroyo can turn it around. If he can, see if we can find any takers. I'm not concerned with Arroyo because his contract isn't that big.

  15. #14
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    Re: Moves Walt Should Make

    1> Trade Griffey. Now. John Mclaren can drive down to San Diego and pick him up tonight, for all I care. Doesn't even matter what you get in return - bucket of balls, PTBNL, jock strap, etc - just pray they'll pick up the rest of his '08 contract.

    2> Let Dunn walk. I *definitely* give Adam Dunn credit for his overall value to the tea....errr....the offense, but he just is not the type of player you can build your team around, imo. The Yanks or Sox or Dodgers or Cubs can "afford" to spend $15 mill/year on a guy like him, but not the Reds. If the Reds are spending that kind of money on ONE guy - he'd damn well better be MVP material. And Dunn is not.

    3> Trading Arroyo would be god's gift to Cincinnati baseball (if some idiot GM were willing to pick up his contract), but it won't happen. Maybe if Isiah Thomas gets a gig in MLB somewhere, but I don't see that happening. Arroyo is a Red - so just deal with it (and his ridiculous JTM commercials).

    4> Don't panic. I'm 29, and for the first time in my life, I literally have NO worries about the future of this franchise. The Reds may not win a World Series in the next 5 years, but they've got more young talent right now than I've ever seen in my life. Trim some of the fat (Patterson/Stanton/Fogg/etc), stay away from overprice free agents, and allow the future of the organization to work their way up to the bigs.

  16. #15
    Attack Cat! OUReds's Avatar
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    Re: Moves Walt Should Make

    Quote Originally Posted by PTI (pti) View Post
    2> Let Dunn walk. I *definitely* give Adam Dunn credit for his overall value to the tea....errr....the offense, but he just is not the type of player you can build your team around, imo. The Yanks or Sox or Dodgers or Cubs can "afford" to spend $15 mill/year on a guy like him, but not the Reds. If the Reds are spending that kind of money on ONE guy - he'd damn well better be MVP material. And Dunn is not.

    3> Trading Arroyo would be god's gift to Cincinnati baseball (if some idiot GM were willing to pick up his contract), but it won't happen. Maybe if Isiah Thomas gets a gig in MLB somewhere, but I don't see that happening. Arroyo is a Red - so just deal with it (and his ridiculous JTM commercials).
    2. That is a defensable position of course, but if you are looking to contend in the next few years, how are you going to replace Dunn's offense? There are no replacements ready in the system, and the free agent market is slim. With Phillips, Kep, Votto, Bruce, and EE reasonably cheap for the near future, why not overpay for Dunn? The alternative is to hope Jocketty can fleece another GM or heavily dip into the minor league talent, and frankly you can't count on the first and I'm not too keen on the second idea.

    edit: I'm not singling you out here, this seems to be a common view on the board. I think it's worth it's own thread.

    3. Arroyo is still striking people out and he has a history of success. Assuming he pitches reasonably well here on out, there will be a market for him. He might even be the best pitcher available at the deadline.
    Last edited by OUReds; 05-23-2008 at 01:50 PM.


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