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Thread: Here's what I don't understand:

  1. #1
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    Here's what I don't understand:

    Bailey and Bruce have a whole list of things they have to work on to get their chance at MLB...those standards are higher and harder to reach than the standards players on the current Reds roster have to meet.

    Bailey not only has to pitch well -he has to pitch well in certain way. Same with Bruce....he's hitting .350, but it isn't quite the .350 the FO wants.

    At this point it's getting silly.

    Does the FO ask Josh Fogg or any of the other guys with ERA's over 5.00 to not only pitch better, but to pitch in a required fashion. I don't see all these demands put on them.

    Bruce has to not only hit .350 but it's has to be the right .350 and he's got to want to be happy about being in triple A.

    If neither one is happy to be in AAA then they are somehow bad employees who need to learn lessons about waiting in line while their "betters" stink up the major league clubhouse. They don't have a right to complain and think they are better than 1 of 25 guys up at the mlb...they need to learn to wait in line and earn tenure. Silly rookies.

    This stuff is getting silly. Call them up and lets move on. The FO is giving a bad message to all the guys in the minors -message being "intangibles that change on a daily basis are more important than performance".

    That's a bad message to send.

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  3. #2
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Here's what I don't understand:

    Those goals are mostly a smokescreen. The overriding and unspoken reason they're in Louisvile is that the FO is trying not to call them up so early that they qualify for Super Two status. They aren't going to be the spark plugs that pushes this team into the playoffs, so there's no urgency that justifies making them arbitration-eligible a year sooner.
    /r/reds

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    Re: Here's what I don't understand:

    Why does Super Two status matter for Bruce if the FO signs him to a deal earlier in his career (ala Longoria, Braun, etc.)? If they plan on locking him up earlier in his career such that the Super Two consequences are moot, then it seems like the only reason he's not up is due to the manager's decisions related to OF playing time.

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    Re: Here's what I don't understand:

    Quote Originally Posted by danforsman View Post
    If they plan on locking him up earlier in his career such that the Super Two consequences are moot, then it seems like the only reason he's not up is due to the manager's decisions related to OF playing time.
    I don't know that they do plan on locking him into an LTC. Even though that's currently in vogue, it's not a trend I expect the Reds to emulate.
    /r/reds

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    Re: Here's what I don't understand:

    I think a good case could be made that waiting for the Super 2 status cost more than just biting the bullet and bringing them up.

    The cost is wins, morale, mixed messages to your best minor leaguers, and even sillier messages to the media.

    I really don't think it's about super 2 status-- i believe they are in a perpetual evaluation phase with one foot in the water and one out.

    Blow it up Walt!!!

  7. #6
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Here's what I don't understand:

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    Those goals are mostly a smokescreen. The overriding and unspoken reason they're in Louisvile is that the FO is trying not to call them up so early that they qualify for Super Two status. They aren't going to be the spark plugs that pushes this team into the playoffs, so there's no urgency that justifies making them arbitration-eligible a year sooner.
    Loaded question you have. I don't think those goals are a smokescreen. I think in Bruce's case they are a little worried about is strike outs and are keping them down in AAA to ease him into MLB action. It would have been a lot to have him start out the season on the Reds and struggle like Votto did at the beginning of this year.

    As for Bailey I really think he is down in AAA to learn how to "pitch". I think they want him to learn how to develop other pitches. They want his control to be a little better. The difference between Bailey and Fogg is upside and potential. Bailey has the body and arm to be that ace that Fogg wasn't blessed with. Fogg is about as good as he is going to get while Bailey has quite a bit more of upside.

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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Here's what I don't understand:

    Quote Originally Posted by danforsman View Post
    Why does Super Two status matter for Bruce if the FO signs him to a deal earlier in his career (ala Longoria, Braun, etc.)? If they plan on locking him up earlier in his career such that the Super Two consequences are moot, then it seems like the only reason he's not up is due to the manager's decisions related to OF playing time.
    that's the way I see it. Bruce seems as much of a lock for success as one can be.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: Here's what I don't understand:

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I think in Bruce's case they are a little worried about is strike outs and are keping them down in AAA to ease him into MLB action. It would have been a lot to have him start out the season on the Reds and struggle like Votto did at the beginning of this year.

    As for Bailey I really think he is down in AAA to learn how to "pitch". I think they want him to learn how to develop other pitches. They want his control to be a little better.
    All of those performance issues you cite are making the choice easier for the FO. Neither Bruce's nor Bailey's play has been stellar enough to justify ignoring the Super Two issue.
    /r/reds

  10. #9
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    Re: Here's what I don't understand:

    Bailey needs more time in Louisville to work on some things but I'd get Bruce and Roenicke up here on Tuesday.

  11. #10
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    Re: Here's what I don't understand:

    I think fans do this too, to some extent. After a player has been scouted for years with every detail of his skill set noted, we figure we can plug a hole by moving him to third, or to left, or sure he can play center until we get a real one.

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    Re: Here's what I don't understand:

    If Bailey needs more time to woork on things then so do about 8 other pitchers on the major league staff. It's as if the bar is set at being a finished product, but in their minds the only way you become a finished product is to have time at the major league level.

    The bar they are sitting is silly. We currently have 3 finished products on the pitching staff. As for the position players--many have more faults than Bruce.

    They should be trying to build a good team--yet, it appears they just want to win the BA minor organization of the year award.

  13. #12
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    Re: Here's what I don't understand:

    I agree with Coop, Bailey shouldve been the 5th starter day one, let him take his lumps in the Bigs, friggin Tom Glavine lost 21 games his first 2 years and they want these young guys to pitch perfect baseball, it aint gonna happen folks these kids need to learn in the Bigs.

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    Re: Here's what I don't understand:

    It would not surprise me at all if Bailey performed better in the bigs than he currently is performing at AAA Louisville. I'm not condoning his attitude issues, but I wonder if he lacks the maturity to be motivated by his demotion but would thrive with the chip that would be placed on his shoulders upon recall to Cincy to prove that he was legit.

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    Re: Here's what I don't understand:

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    that's the way I see it. Bruce seems as much of a lock for success as one can be.

    It seems like it but the problem with comparing players like Bruce to actual major leaguers is that the major leaguers have done enough to prove they can hit major league pitching and Jay Bruce has not. It's a Catch-22. Bruce cannot show he can hit MLB pitching until he's in the majors. The woods are full of superstar AAA players who had problems when they made the final step.
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    Re: Here's what I don't understand:

    Quote Originally Posted by danforsman View Post
    Why does Super Two status matter for Bruce if the FO signs him to a deal earlier in his career (ala Longoria, Braun, etc.)? If they plan on locking him up earlier in his career such that the Super Two consequences are moot, then it seems like the only reason he's not up is due to the manager's decisions related to OF playing time.
    The super 2 status will never be moot.

    A long term contract is largely based, in part, upon what a player is likley to get in the future. A player who has super 2 status would earn more money faster, so any long term contract he gets will have to be more accordinly.


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