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Thread: Zack Greinke?

  1. #16
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    Kent Bottenfield and Adam Kennedy yielded Jim Edmonds in his prime. That was pretty good shining. And then some.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    There is so much wrong with your post, I wouldn't no where to start.

    Actually it's easy. It's all wrong.
    Nope. Ask any scout or individual that has seen Homer pitch. He has been losing velocity since 2007. This year it is really noticeable. He had moments in 2006 where he would throw 91-94 but that was early in the year. He also had games such as his 6 inning no hitters he had, when he was throwing high substained velocity. Then in June he was a machine for practically the rest of the year.

    He simply isn't a valued commodity anymore. Desire, fire, steriods? Doesn't matter, it is where he is now. A finesse righty with no offspeed pitch. Those guys don't sell for much.

    There is your AAA struggle answer. Demote him to AA and watch him not put up near the numbers he did in 2006. Maybe that would show the evidence to the non-believers.

  4. #18
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    Aronchis doesn't know what he is talking about outside of Bailey has struggled some in AAA this year. Steroids? Fire? Desire? You have to be kidding me. You obviously don't watch him pitch in AAA.

  5. #19
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Aronchis doesn't know what he is talking about outside of Bailey has struggled some in AAA this year. Steroids? Fire? Desire? You have to be kidding me. You obviously don't watch him pitch in AAA.
    Yes I have watched Bailey pitch. He no longer has plus velocity.

    doug, why even bother discussing it and making excuses for him when you know as much as myself, Homer doesn't have it anymore.

  6. #20
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    Yes I have watched Bailey pitch. He no longer has plus velocity.

    doug, why even bother discussing it and making excuses for him when you know as much as myself, Homer doesn't have it anymore.
    Why does he need excuses? I have a strange feeling that starting Thursday you won't ever see Homer in AAA again. He is ready to prove a bunch of knuckleheads wrong. Steroids? Seriously watch what you say. Totally classless.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  7. #21
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    Bailey at this point, would at best get a Kyle Lohse type. He is no longer considered a power arm and that is what this board is missing. Steriods? Don't ask me. But the Reds tried HARD to move him over the offseason and they couldn't find takers.

    The Reds Thompson,Valaika,Maloney who all probably have more value than Bailey.
    Are you serious?

  8. #22
    GO XAVIER! toledodan's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    KC wants a LH power bat. most talk shows that i've heard since moving here has said the royals would trade some of their young talent but hold on to some others and sign them. i haven't heard of grienke as being one of the ones to trade. KC is really screwed up with some of their contract decisions. they are worried about arbitration on some of the kids but gave big contracts to Jose G. and Gill M. adam dunn's name has been mentioned more than once but they figure he would never sign a contract to stay even if he was traded there. if the reds offered a minor league package together they might get a sniff. of course there would be a long line of teams willing to package some kids for zach.
    there's nothing like bowling a 300 game! 13 now and retired.


    Ricky henderson has a higher OBP than C. patterson and he's retired. C. Trent 6-14-2008

  9. #23
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis View Post
    Yes I have watched Bailey pitch. He no longer has plus velocity.

    doug, why even bother discussing it and making excuses for him when you know as much as myself, Homer doesn't have it anymore.
    You can tell plus velocity from online video with no radar gun? Are you really trying to tell me your EYE can tell you the difference between 93 and 96, especially on internet video that is 330 kbs? If you are, then I am just going to have to call your bluff.

    Then to say he has no desire or fire.... well then I don't know where that comes from. He literally gets visibly upset at times on the mound when he makes a mistake pitch. If he had no desire or fire then that obviously wouldn't be happening.

  10. #24
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    Let me start this post by saying I have NOT seen Homer Bailey pitch this year.

    Let me end this post by saying that from what I saw last year (when he wasn't pitching all that great), I am not ready to give up on HB. Why are we giving up already again? Can someone tell me that?

    Is it Hal McCoy and the writers writing their garbage? Is it because he didn't have immediate success? Or is it because we don't know that it takes a while to develop young pitchers? Ask the Yankees (Hughes, Kennedy), Rays (Shields, Kazmir, Jackson), Tigers (Verlander, Bonderman), it is not an easy process

    We are lucky to have Volquez and Cueto and the ability to not rely on Bailey to contribute all that much. HB is 21? 22? GIVE HIM TIME he has the stuff and make-up to be a special player.
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  11. #25
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    On the original topic, Grienke would be an excellent get that could put this team in a serious compete mode through '10-'11. (He's younger then Volquez). Could we get him without dealing Bailey (probably not). He may be a FA after the 2010 season (not sure, but he has a lot of service time going back to 2004)

    Why would KC ever trade him? As M2 pointed out long ago, teams give up on young, high potential arms for all sorts of varying reasons -- not necessarily due to impending FA within the next 1-2 years.

    Why would Minn trade Matt Garza after his breakthrough last season, the O's deal Bedard, the Mets deal Kazmir, the A's deal Haren, the Rangers deal Volquez, the Dodgers Edwin Jackson, etc. etc. Why would FCB trade Homer Bailey for a round of beer (just kidding ) It doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen.

    BTW, how sick is the Rays staff looking at this point with Garza/Jackson posting some sweet numbers to go along with Kazmir and Shields.

  12. #26
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    I'll say the same thing about Bailey that I have been saying about Pelland: You do NOT give up on 20-22 year old pitcher with Plus FB's at this stage in their careers. Even IF it takes Bailey until he's 24, you don't do it. The upside is there. Ask the Mets about giving up on young pitchers. If they had Kazmir right now, they wouldn't have needed Santana.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  13. #27
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Why does he need excuses? I have a strange feeling that starting Thursday you won't ever see Homer in AAA again. He is ready to prove a bunch of knuckleheads wrong. Steroids? Seriously watch what you say. Totally classless.
    I'm ready to see it.

    Go Homer!!!

  14. #28
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You can tell plus velocity from online video with no radar gun? Are you really trying to tell me your EYE can tell you the difference between 93 and 96, especially on internet video that is 330 kbs? If you are, then I am just going to have to call your bluff.

    Then to say he has no desire or fire.... well then I don't know where that comes from. He literally gets visibly upset at times on the mound when he makes a mistake pitch. If he had no desire or fire then that obviously wouldn't be happening.
    I think he sees what he wants. He CLEARLY has a bias against Homer Bailey for whatever reason - but that's nothing new.

  15. #29
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    Quote Originally Posted by oregonred View Post
    On the original topic, Grienke would be an excellent get that could put this team in a serious compete mode through '10-'11. (He's younger then Volquez). Could we get him without dealing Bailey (probably not). He may be a FA after the 2010 season (not sure, but he has a lot of service time going back to 2004)

    Why would KC ever trade him? As M2 pointed out long ago, teams give up on young, high potential arms for all sorts of varying reasons -- not necessarily due to impending FA within the next 1-2 years.

    Why would Minn trade Matt Garza after his breakthrough last season, the O's deal Bedard, the Mets deal Kazmir, the A's deal Haren, the Rangers deal Volquez, the Dodgers Edwin Jackson, etc. etc. Why would FCB trade Homer Bailey for a round of beer (just kidding ) It doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen.

    BTW, how sick is the Rays staff looking at this point with Garza/Jackson posting some sweet numbers to go along with Kazmir and Shields.
    This is my point about it exactly, there seems to be logical reasons for each deal of those you mentioned. But I don't think any of those would apply to KC currently, except perhaps the Garza deal. Both Minnesota and KC figure they needed a lift offensively so to speak and used/are using young arms to acquire that piece. I guess now that I think about it this also does apply to the Volquez deal. However in each previous scenario the pitcher had "issues" of some sort. My question is does KC still feel like Grienke has issues and if so then they obviously feel like he's bound to go backwards sometime real soon.

    Buyer beware!!
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  16. #30
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Grienke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    This is my point about it exactly, there seems to be logical reasons for each deal of those you mentioned. But I don't think any of those would apply to KC currently, except perhaps the Garza deal. Both Minnesota and KC figure they needed a lift offensively so to speak and used/are using young arms to acquire that piece. I guess now that I think about it this also does apply to the Volquez deal. However in each previous scenario the pitcher had "issues" of some sort. My question is does KC still feel like Grienke has issues and if so then they obviously feel like he's bound to go backwards sometime real soon.

    Buyer beware!!
    KC has a number of holes. If they get a package deal for Greinke I think they'd consider it but I haven't seen one on here yet, Mario. Bailey and Stubs? They'd laugh even with a couple of the add-ons that were suggested. Greinke would be very expensive to acquire. This is the kind of package it would take in my opinion. Bailey, Thompson, Frazier and Cumberland. If that's too much then don't do it. But the people who think KC is going to hand you Greinke for the other packages mentioned so far are wrong.


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