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Thread: Where are the Reds Going?

  1. #16
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamDunn View Post
    Doesn't mean what he's saying isn't legit. My point is that Walt doesn't know how to use his minor league system well. His drafts point that out. He got Pujols, Drew, and a few guys of that nature. But he traded a lot of good players and lots of the picks under his tenure in St. Louis were busts. He goes for big potential that are really risky. That's what I feel about this pick.
    Alonso isn't a risky pick.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamDunn View Post
    Doesn't mean what he's saying isn't legit. My point is that Walt doesn't know how to use his minor league system well. His drafts point that out. He got Pujols, Drew, and a few guys of that nature. But he traded a lot of good players and lots of the picks under his tenure in St. Louis were busts. He goes for big potential that are really risky. That's what I feel about this pick.
    Having the players to trade for major league talent is a second purpose of the farm system. Despite what you may have seen from Carl Lindner, baseball teams don't trade top major league talent so they can continue to suck indefinately.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    Plus Kevin Goldstein has also hinted that Smoak possibly has attitude problems. Maybe that factored into their decision.
    Wouldn't be surprised. People are consistently saying positive things about Alonso's "intangibles." To me, when you're trying to separate the top, top guys, makeup is real important.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    The Reds obviously liked Alonso better than Smoak. That's fine with me. Plus Kevin Goldstein has also hinted that Smoak possibly has attitude problems. Maybe that factored into their decision. I don't know.
    $8 million dollars is a big price to pay to avoid attitude problems, especially when the guy is better than the one you draft. Also, Gordon Beckham was still around.

    But I think you're missing the point. Not only did the Reds mess up their pick (which was very important since they didn't have a second round pick), but also we're changing philosophies every two years. No direction. That's what people have been saying for years. Personally, I don't think Walt knows how to draft or how to build a small market team. He doesn't know how to handle the minors properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Having the players to trade for major league talent is a second purpose of the farm system.
    Not for a small market team that hasn't fielding a winning team in a decade.
    Last edited by AdamDunn; 06-06-2008 at 02:07 PM. Reason: add more
    FIRE DUSTY BAKER

  6. #20
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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamDunn View Post
    $8 million dollars is a big price to pay to avoid attitude problems, especially when the guy is better than the one you draft. Also, Gordon Beckham was still around.

    But I think you're missing the point. Not only did the Reds mess up their pick (which was very important since they didn't have a second round pick), but also we're changing philosophies every two years. No direction. That's what people have been saying for years. Personally, I don't think Walt knows how to draft or how to build a small market team. He doesn't know how to handle the minors properly.
    Lets note that 8 million is an asking price and its not likely he gets it. Heck, Buster Posey was asking 12 million. If he gets half of that I would be surprised.

    I also love that before ANYONE has stepped on the field as a pro or even signed a contract its a given that the Reds messed up the pick.

    Where did the Reds change a philosophy?

  7. #21
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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamDunn View Post
    But I think you're missing the point. Not only did the Reds mess up their pick (which was very important since they didn't have a second round pick)
    That's your opinion.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  8. #22
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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    Who floated the $8mil price tag?

    It's mentioned in one article that Alonso possibly wants that amount and now it's gospel - that's 4 times the amount that his slot should get.

    With all the rumors, conjecture, half truths and mis information out there about who's getting picked where and how much they want, I wouldn't believe one ounce of it until I hear something definitive from the Reds or from Alonso's agent.

  9. #23
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    just have to hope they are right but it seems that one of Votto/Alonso will have to go in the next few years.

    Trying to make 1Bs into LFs is a bad idea ... especially seeing how much folks around here complain about the OF defense.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  10. #24
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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamDunn View Post
    Not for a small market team that hasn't fielding a winning team in a decade.
    Sure it is. The best is to have a mixture. They have a number of young players on the roster(good and cheap.) But even with an $80 million roster there is still room to pay Dunn, Harang, Arroyo, Griffey, and the DFA'd All-Stars somewhere around $40 million. As some high price talent leaves the organization, there is room in the budget for other players who can contribute but may cost more.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  11. #25
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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    That guy you linked to is a nobody. It wouldn't surprise me if everything he wrote is made up on the spot.
    True he is about as reliable as me, you, or the next guy. He mentioned a few scout references and to be honest they aren't that far off base. They are basically the same concerns that have been voiced on RZ.

    Once he signs he is a Red and I will root for him. I am not going to hold a grudge because "who we could of had" but at the same time you have to wonder whether this was the best pick in this slot. At the same time you can't help but notice that there are some serious reservations that you can have about this kid. You also have to wonder about the 40 man roster spot they freed up just prior to the draft.

    You also have to wonder about the stability of the scouting department. Could the scouting department thought that Alonso was the closest one to the majors, but not the one with the highest ceiling? Could this have been a move of desparatoin a la Ryan Wagner?

  12. #26
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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    Did Smoak play in the Cape Cod League? I really think Alonso's performance there is what the Reds liked most and if so, can you blame them? Those are great numbers with wooden bats against great competition.

    I've warmed up to the Alonso pick in the last 24 hours. Nobody knows right now if that was the best pick for the Reds. I do think Alonso was a smarter pick than Beckham is/was now, based on doing some extensive reading. I think Smoak and Crow are going to be the 2 that Reds fans will question most. Crow's videos look sick. The mechanics thing could be a problem, but his pitches looked very crisp with great movement. Smoak, being a switch hitter and a very good defender of course will bring into question whether the Reds made the right or wrong decision there.

  13. #27
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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    Honest question.....
    This team has graduated Joey Votto, Jay Bruce, Homer Bailey and Johnny Cueto this year and could sport at least 5 or 6 more Top 100 prospects in baseball this year with Drew Stubbs, Devin Mesoraco, Juan Duran, Travis Wood, Daryl Thompson and Yonder Alonso.... don't they deserve at least some faith that they know what they are doing in the scouting and development department?

  14. #28
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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Honest question.....
    This team has graduated Joey Votto, Jay Bruce, Homer Bailey and Johnny Cueto this year and could sport at least 5 or 6 more Top 100 prospects in baseball this year with Drew Stubbs, Devin Mesoraco, Juan Duran, Travis Wood, Daryl Thompson and Yonder Alonso.... don't they deserve at least some faith that they know what they are doing in the scouting and development department?
    Nah. RZers know more than them
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  15. #29
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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Lets note that 8 million is an asking price and its not likely he gets it. Heck, Buster Posey was asking 12 million. If he gets half of that I would be surprised.

    I also love that before ANYONE has stepped on the field as a pro or even signed a contract its a given that the Reds messed up the pick.

    Where did the Reds change a philosophy?
    I say unless they're a solid for sure (as sure as a prospect can be that is), they don't deserve $8 million. I hope he gets less than half of that. He surely doesn't deserve to have the highest signing bonus in Reds history.

    You're right. He might become a star. I argue that there were two players that were clearly better picks. Smoak and Gordon. My uneducated opinion (strong as it is) is that he won't.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcclain19 View Post
    Who floated the $8mil price tag?

    It's mentioned in one article that Alonso possibly wants that amount and now it's gospel - that's 4 times the amount that his slot should get.

    With all the rumors, conjecture, half truths and mis information out there about who's getting picked where and how much they want, I wouldn't believe one ounce of it until I hear something definitive from the Reds or from Alonso's agent.
    I hope you're right. When he was asked about the $8 million price tag though, he didnt deny it. He just said he wasn't ready to talk about it.
    FIRE DUSTY BAKER

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    Re: Where are the Reds Going?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Honest question.....
    This team has graduated Joey Votto, Jay Bruce, Homer Bailey and Johnny Cueto this year and could sport at least 5 or 6 more Top 100 prospects in baseball this year with Drew Stubbs, Devin Mesoraco, Juan Duran, Travis Wood, Daryl Thompson and Yonder Alonso.... don't they deserve at least some faith that they know what they are doing in the scouting and development department?
    Joey Votto - Jim Bowden (not that he was good or anything)
    Jay Bruce - Dan O'Brien (with the scouting of Brian Wilson)

    etc.

    Like I said, I'm surprised we've had such success in the development of players. We're lucky that two managers (Dan O'Brien and WK) both knew how to raise a minor league system (WK better than DanO, but w/e)
    FIRE DUSTY BAKER


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