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Thread: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

  1. #46
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    That is over parts of 4 seasons...
    It's still a full seasons worth of atbats in the major leagues.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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  3. #47
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    Ok, If Jeff Keppinger is your starting 2nd baseman, you are basically buying a Taurus to Drive and showing the rest of the world you are giving up...

    If Jeff Keppinger gets 550-600 AB's in 1 year...

    I bet he'll have a pretty decent OB%... But his stat line is going to be more like .280-.285, 10-12 homers, 65-75 RBI, and he is going to have like 150-160 hits... and thats fine... But I think he is basically a role player for any team...
    Then there are a whole lot of Taurus drivers in baseball. The last 3 seasons guys who hit .285 with 10 HR, 75 RBI and 150 hits is limited to Chase Utley (three times), Jeff Kent, Jorge Cantu, Robinson cano (twice), Aaron Hill, Brandon Phillips and Freddy Sanchez. It seems like you have a preconceived notion about what an every day second baseman puts up in the stat line that is pretty offbase for what an actual every day second baseman does indeed put up.

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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Then there are a whole lot of Taurus drivers in baseball. The last 3 seasons guys who hit .285 with 10 HR, 75 RBI and 150 hits is limited to Chase Utley (three times), Jeff Kent, Jorge Cantu, Robinson cano (twice), Aaron Hill, Brandon Phillips and Freddy Sanchez. It seems like you have a preconceived notion about what an every day second baseman puts up in the stat line that is pretty offbase for what an actual every day second baseman does indeed put up.

    Yet Keppinger has done neither...

    I am not saying Jeff Keppinger could not start... Physically.

    I am saying that he will not produce .324 or .313 over a full grinding season of 150 starts and 600-700 PA's...

    The players you mentioned, ok thats fine... Even though there over all numbers were superior to the ones I listed... The Guy, Kepp is a Back up at best... I don't care if you go back in to the early 1970's of stats for people who hit .275-14-61-10steals 28 doubles 3 triples 68 runs - 152 hits and had an ob% of .359 and averaged that over 7 seasons...

    Kepp is a back up. Face it.

    Yet you will probably go dig up another 6 players who went .275-14-61-10 and list them out...

    Is Hariston a Starter? No Keppinger isn't either... He is getting AB's due to injuries and making the most out of them... and I applaud him for it, and I am happy he is helping the Reds... But I am not in the group who think you start or build around Jeff Keppinger...

    I wonder, I bet you are one of those guys who doesn't think this team needs to resign Dunn to a LTC...

  5. #49
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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    That is over parts of 4 seasons...
    I think what their saying Hondo is that Keppinger displays a skillset which lends itself to the belief that the #'s aren't a mirage. In other words he's not necc. benefitting from a great deal of luck to make a body of work but skill. And if you agree that his skillset is starter level then he is in fact a starter for some team. And his defense could be acceptable at 2B if/when he learns better positioning to make up for a sizable lack of range, assuming he continues to hit like he has.

    I think he could be a solid 2B but I don't quite know if he could be quite to the level of Michael Young's bat, but given his skills it's not out of the range of possibility I would presume. At least in this park or one like it.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  6. #50
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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    Yet Keppinger has done neither...

    I am not saying Jeff Keppinger could not start... Physically.

    I am saying that he will not produce .324 or .313 over a full grinding season of 150 starts and 600-700 PA's...

    The players you mentioned, ok thats fine... Even though there over all numbers were superior to the ones I listed... The Guy, Kepp is a Back up at best... I don't care if you go back in to the early 1970's of stats for people who hit .275-14-61-10steals 28 doubles 3 triples 68 runs - 152 hits and had an ob% of .359 and averaged that over 7 seasons...

    Kepp is a back up. Face it.

    Yet you will probably go dig up another 6 players who went .275-14-61-10 and list them out...

    Is Hariston a Starter? No Keppinger isn't either... He is getting AB's due to injuries and making the most out of them... and I applaud him for it, and I am happy he is helping the Reds... But I am not in the group who think you start or build around Jeff Keppinger...

    I wonder, I bet you are one of those guys who doesn't think this team needs to resign Dunn to a LTC...
    Hairstons record of being as good as he is showing right now isn't long at all. Keppingers is. Big difference.

    As for my listing of the stats of 2B with those stats, I am not finding a specific number of guys, I am simply throwing the numbers you suggest into a program and finding guys with at least those numbers. Do you build around Keppinger? I wouldn't build around him, but that certainly doesn't mean he shouldn't be a starter on the team. I wouldn't build around anyone on our team not named Bruce right now, because guys to build around are guys that are untouchable. Maybe add Volquez to that. But that doesn't mean the other guys aren't valuable pieces or every day players.

    As for not wanting to resign Dunn.... not that it has anything to do with this topic, but it depends what he wants and his willingness to play first base.

  7. #51
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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    Yet Keppinger has done neither...

    I am not saying Jeff Keppinger could not start... Physically.

    I am saying that he will not produce .324 or .313 over a full grinding season of 150 starts and 600-700 PA's...

    The players you mentioned, ok thats fine... Even though there over all numbers were superior to the ones I listed... The Guy, Kepp is a Back up at best... I don't care if you go back in to the early 1970's of stats for people who hit .275-14-61-10steals 28 doubles 3 triples 68 runs - 152 hits and had an ob% of .359 and averaged that over 7 seasons...

    Kepp is a back up. Face it.

    Yet you will probably go dig up another 6 players who went .275-14-61-10 and list them out...

    Is Hariston a Starter? No Keppinger isn't either... He is getting AB's due to injuries and making the most out of them... and I applaud him for it, and I am happy he is helping the Reds... But I am not in the group who think you start or build around Jeff Keppinger...

    I wonder, I bet you are one of those guys who doesn't think this team needs to resign Dunn to a LTC...
    You know what's an awesome debating technique? When somebody makes an argument against you using statistics, and you either don't want to or can't make a retort against those statistics, just keep repeating your main point over and over until the other person gives in and believes you. Works like a charm.

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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    Quote Originally Posted by SMcGavin View Post
    You know what's an awesome debating technique? When somebody makes an argument against you using statistics, and you either don't want to or can't make a retort against those statistics, just keep repeating your main point over and over until the other person gives in and believes you. Works like a charm.
    Dude, the statistics don't mean anything in this case... He has no proven track record other than a very small sample size... I did make a "retort", and they are doing the exact thing you say I am doing back to them...

    You sir are "priceless"

  9. #53
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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    He has no proven track record other than a very small sample size
    He's had 389 at bats since joining the Reds. That's not a huge sample size, but a pretty good chunk. And it's not like he's lucked into that .320+ batting average. The guy has kept a contact percentage in Tony Gwynn territory the last two years. If you're saying he's not durable enough to hit like that for a full year, then maybe you're right, but it's becoming hard to deny that Keppinger is one of the better contact hitters in the game right now.

  10. #54
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    Yet Keppinger has done neither...

    I am not saying Jeff Keppinger could not start... Physically.

    I am saying that he will not produce .324 or .313 over a full grinding season of 150 starts and 600-700 PA's...

    The players you mentioned, ok thats fine... Even though there over all numbers were superior to the ones I listed... The Guy, Kepp is a Back up at best... I don't care if you go back in to the early 1970's of stats for people who hit .275-14-61-10steals 28 doubles 3 triples 68 runs - 152 hits and had an ob% of .359 and averaged that over 7 seasons...

    Kepp is a back up. Face it.

    Yet you will probably go dig up another 6 players who went .275-14-61-10 and list them out...

    Is Hariston a Starter? No Keppinger isn't either... He is getting AB's due to injuries and making the most out of them... and I applaud him for it, and I am happy he is helping the Reds... But I am not in the group who think you start or build around Jeff Keppinger...

    I wonder, I bet you are one of those guys who doesn't think this team needs to resign Dunn to a LTC...
    Hondo I am confused by your logic in this debate. It seems to me you have a gruge or a personal bias against Keppinger. Fair enough we all have them in sports.

    I think the way you should argue in this debate isn't saying "Keppinger is a backup at best" rather "I don't think Keppinger is a full time player". The logic you use in this debate is that Keppinger isn't a full time player because he hasn't done it before but when give the playing time he has only dispelled this notion.

    Keppinger has done nothing but come up to the majors and hit. He has lived up to his minor league numbers and then some. He has done nothing so far in his career to show that he can't handle playing every day.

    Not every player on you club is going to be allstar caliber. Is Keppinger the best SS or 3B or 2B in the league? No. However is Keppinger one of the best 8 everyday players the reds have on their current roster? I say yes. Keppinger provides a unique skill set that no one else on the reds does. He is a contact hitter with gap power. He is going to hit line drives and put the ball in play more often than not. He probably won't put up huge RBI numbers but at the same time those RBI guys may not be able to hit with the consistancy that Keppinger has. Give me a guy with a line of 313/.368/.441 and I will gladly put him in the lineup every day.

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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    Holy Thread Hijacking Batman!!!!!

    How did a Yonder Alonso thread devolve into this mess?
    Last edited by Steve4192; 06-10-2008 at 12:47 PM.

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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Hondo I am confused by your logic in this debate. It seems to me you have a gruge or a personal bias against Keppinger. Fair enough we all have them in sports.

    I think the way you should argue in this debate isn't saying "Keppinger is a backup at best" rather "I don't think Keppinger is a full time player". The logic you use in this debate is that Keppinger isn't a full time player because he hasn't done it before but when give the playing time he has only dispelled this notion.

    Keppinger has done nothing but come up to the majors and hit. He has lived up to his minor league numbers and then some. He has done nothing so far in his career to show that he can't handle playing every day.

    Not every player on you club is going to be allstar caliber. Is Keppinger the best SS or 3B or 2B in the league? No. However is Keppinger one of the best 8 everyday players the reds have on their current roster? I say yes. Keppinger provides a unique skill set that no one else on the reds does. He is a contact hitter with gap power. He is going to hit line drives and put the ball in play more often than not. He probably won't put up huge RBI numbers but at the same time those RBI guys may not be able to hit with the consistancy that Keppinger has. Give me a guy with a line of 313/.368/.441 and I will gladly put him in the lineup every day.
    "I don't think Keppinger is a full time player"

    Ok, There ya go...

    Also, I don't have a personal grudge against Kepp, not at all... As I have stated he is a fine hitter... He is just not all that and a box of rocks.

  13. #57
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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192 View Post
    Holy Thread Hijacking Batman!!!!!

    How did a Yonder Alonso thread devolve into this mess?
    Alonso was also a backup catcher when he came to UM. I'm sure he would be a disaster in the field but how awesome would his bat be behind the plate?

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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    .280-.285, 10-12 homers, 65-75 RBI, and he is going to have like 150-160 hits... and thats a roll player? I think just about every team would take those stats from thier EVEYDAY middle infielder

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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    Quote Originally Posted by Lockdwn11 View Post
    .280-.285, 10-12 homers, 65-75 RBI, and he is going to have like 150-160 hits... and thats a roll player? I think just about every team would take those stats from thier EVEYDAY middle infielder
    So, do you wanna Debate all my Posts?

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    Re: I wouldn't be surprised if they try Yonder at 3rd

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    That is over parts of 4 seasons...
    Doesn't matter. It's a significant enough sample size to make a judgement. The fact that he's done it over 4 years only shows that he's been consistant. That's a good thing. A player that puts those numbers up for one year might be a fluke.

    Keppinger hit well in the minors.
    He's hit well in the majors.
    His major league sample size is significant
    He's hit well consistantly over a number of years.

    Note that all this is a sharp contrast to, say, Hairston, who's never hit before this year in the majors or the minors, so he can be fairly considered a fluke.

    The bottom line is that there's no reason to doubt that Keppinger can hit at about the same clip he hit this year and last year. And not only is there no reason to doubt it, there's no evidence to support the idea that he can't replicate it.

    Sorry to say it, but you're thinking in Dusty Baker logic. "Keppinger is a role player, well, just because..."


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