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Thread: Francisco Cordero Save %

  1. #1
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    Francisco Cordero Save %

    Out of everyone with 17 or more save opportunities, Francisco has the 3rd worst save % in the majors.

    Guess who's 1 and 2?

    Jason Isringhausen and Eric Gagne. In case you've been living in a cave, both of those guys lost their closers jobs. Now, do I think Francisco deserves to lose his? No, but would we really be in that worse of shape if David Weathers was still our closer? The scary answer is no. I think we can all thank Wayne for overpaying another player on this team.

    So I ask, is he really worth 46 million dollars?

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  3. #2
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    Re: Francisco Cordero Save %

    No he is not worth that contract...not that a closer isn't/wasn't helpful. But we've had as much trouble getting a game to closer as much as closing it out. We'll be hard presssed to make that contract work in years 3 and 4. And given that we aren't competing in year 1 of that contract...why do it?

    Simply, Krivsky struggled so much to spend contract for pitching. Cordero will go as non helpful as helpful in the end given his contract.

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    Re: Francisco Cordero Save %

    All I know is Cody Ross owns Cordero. Youd think Cordero wouldnt keep throwing fastballs to the guy after the last time he hit a 9th inning homer off of him at gabp on a fastball, its rediculous!

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    Re: Francisco Cordero Save %

    Cordero is much better than Weathers. Worth 46 for 4 years? No, but we knew Kriv overpaid when that deal was signed.

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    Re: Francisco Cordero Save %

    Let me go into everything wrong with this deliberately manipulative thread...

    1. First off, Cordero only has 15 save opportunities.
    2. You're taking a small sample right after a blown save. Before last night, Corder's save% was 86%, which was middle-of-the-pack. That's probably where it will be at the end of the season.
    3. He has 3 blown saves. Last year the team had 27 blown saves.
    4. Weathers has been in AAA most of the year. Without him and Cordero, our only decent relief pitchers all year would have been Burton and Affeldt. That means more innings for Coffey, Lincoln, etc. How many games would the bullpen have blown then?!
    5. Cordero was the best closer on the market.
    6. Cordero's ERA is 2.93 (season high?). Weathers ERA is 4.15. Based on that, Weathers probably would have blown more saves than Cordero by this point.
    7. Isringhausen's save% is 64%, Gagne's in 66%. Cordero's is 80% right after a BS. Most closers' are around 85%, where Cordero's been all year, so he's basically average.
    8. Cordero is 9 out of 17 in ERA for closers over 15 saves, which is more telling than blown saves, because it reflects how well he's pitched overall. Blown saves is can be influenced by whether you happen to pitch in closer games (INOW, a 3-run lead is easier to save than a 1-run lead, and that's not reflected in the BS stat.)


    Yeah, we overpaid for Cordero. Everybody knew that right after the contract was announced. But his performance this year is right on pace with his recent career, so I don't see how anybody can all of the sudden have a problem with him.
    Last edited by TN Red Fan; 06-08-2008 at 09:14 AM.

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    Re: Francisco Cordero Save %

    Overpaid?

    Yeah I'm sure he probably is.

    But come on, he's the best true closer the Reds have had, in terms of lights out stuff since Rob Dibble's hey day. Although you could arguably say Scott Williamson was of that ilk as well, but Willy was always a walk waiting to happen or a Tommy John operation waiting to happen.

    If you honestly think we'd do just as well with Weathers, well I'm sure you won't have a whole lot of company in the line you're standing in.

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    Re: Francisco Cordero Save %

    Quote Originally Posted by TN Red Fan View Post
    Let me go into everything wrong with this deliberately manipulative thread...

    1. First off, Cordero only has 15 save opportunities.
    2. You're taking a small sample right after a blown save. Before last night, Corder's save% was 86%, which was middle-of-the-pack. That's probably where it will be at the end of the season.
    3. He has 3 blown saves. Last year the team had 27 blown saves.
    4. Weathers has been in AAA most of the year. Without him and Cordero, our only decent relief pitchers all year would have been Burton and Affeldt. That means more innings for Coffey, Lincoln, etc. How many games would the bullpen have blown then?!
    5. Cordero was the best closer on the market.
    6. Cordero's ERA is 2.93 (season high?). Weathers ERA is 4.15. Based on that, Weathers probably would have blown more saves than Cordero by this point.
    7. Isringhausen's save% is 64%, Gagne's in 66%. Cordero's is 80% right after a BS. Most closers' are around 85%, where Cordero's been all year, so he's basically average.
    8. Cordero is 9 out of 17 in ERA for closers over 15 saves, which is more telling than blown saves, because it reflects how well he's pitched overall. Blown saves is can be influenced by whether you happen to pitch in closer games (INOW, a 3-run lead is easier to save than a 1-run lead, and that's not reflected in the BS stat.)


    Yeah, we overpaid for Cordero. Everybody knew that right after the contract was announced. But his performance this year is right on pace with his recent career, so I don't see how anybody can all of the sudden have a problem with him.
    Nice post

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    Re: Francisco Cordero Save %

    Cordero is worth his weight in gold totally agreed and no one has taken the loss last night harder than himself. He's a gamer and thats probable why he did throw the fastball again to Ross, he wanted to show him up. How much ya wanna bet when that match up happens again Ross gets a steady diet of sliders and change ups and whiffs! Cordero just has to learn not to throw fastballs to that guy, even at 97.

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    Re: Francisco Cordero Save %

    Was it Arroyo who threw the fastball to the pitcher for a single and an RBI? Although he grooved one to the pitcher, we have to remember most major leaguers can hit good fastballs - even if they are 97 mph. Change of speed is the trick to keep them guessing and off balance. Ross guessed right and it was checkmate. It appears that CoCo should have stayed with his breaking stuff on this batter. He had him overmatched as did Bronson with the pitcher - poor pitch selection will cause problems. I wonder if Ross made that call or if it was CoCo? Something to ponder....

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    Re: Francisco Cordero Save %

    7. Isringhausen's save% is 64%, Gagne's in 66%. Cordero's is 80% right after a BS. Most closers' are around 85%, where Cordero's been all year, so he's basically average.
    Awesome. We paid an average closer 46 million dollars.

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    Re: Francisco Cordero Save %

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Hurt View Post
    Was it Arroyo who threw the fastball to the pitcher for a single and an RBI? Although he grooved one to the pitcher, we have to remember most major leaguers can hit good fastballs - even if they are 97 mph. Change of speed is the trick to keep them guessing and off balance. Ross guessed right and it was checkmate. It appears that CoCo should have stayed with his breaking stuff on this batter. He had him overmatched as did Bronson with the pitcher - poor pitch selection will cause problems. I wonder if Ross made that call or if it was CoCo? Something to ponder....
    I agree, and as I said the last homer at gabp by Ross in the ninth to tie the game was off a fastball. cordero remembered that and instead of throwing the offspeed stuff he got a lil cocky and threw him a fastball as If to say you cant do it again. Im sure the next time Cordero faces him he'll learn his lesson "Ross is a fastball hitter". Throw the kitchen sink but dont throw the fastball...

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    Re: Francisco Cordero Save %

    If Ross is in the lineup Harang will deal with him easily because he locates and changes speeds well. I really hope Ross starts cause he's got a bulls eye on him and when I say that I mean a strike out bulls eye!

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    Re: Francisco Cordero Save %

    Quote Originally Posted by DTCromer View Post
    Awesome. We paid an average closer 46 million dollars.
    Krivsky made that deal, he's gone now. Would Jocketty have made that same move? I doubt it, definetly with that price tag. However, I am perfectly fine with having Cordero as our closer. Blown saves happen, it's baseball.

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    Re: Francisco Cordero Save %

    Let's say tonight in the 9th inning we are up by 1 run with runners on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out, who are you gonna feel most comfortable with bringing in. Cordero is a no brainer for me ever after last night, he is our closer, has good stuff, throws gas and is far better than anything we have had. Forget about what happened last night, it sucks and hurts, but lets get behind our players when they mess up for once.

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    Re: Francisco Cordero Save %

    I checked Cordero's lifetime stats and he is going to blow some saves as does everyone. For his career, Cordero has converted 79.4% of his save opportunities (including this season). So, if he gets 50 save opportunities this year expect about another 7 blown saves.

    For the last 5 years the league leader in saves has converted 87%, 90%, 87%, 93% and 100% (Gagne) of their save opportunities. So Cordero is not bad nor is he great but he does provide some stability for the bullpen which has been missing the last 3 years. You have to go back to 2004 when Danny Graves saved 41 games out of 50.


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