Turn Off Ads?
Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 456789 LastLast
Results 106 to 120 of 127

Thread: What's Wrong

  1. #106
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,160

    Re: What's Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Trading the overrated Phillips could open a spot for Keppinger as well if Valaika doesn't pan out. Now might be a great time to move him for pieces that could help fill the team's holes (CF, C, SS, arms)...
    Phillips is a top-10 bat at 2B (going by RARP), he might very well be the best defender in the game at 2B, he's great on the bases and he's got the sort of high motor this often listless squad needs more of.

    Frankly, I don't think you could get back a better player for Brandon Phillips than Brandon Phillips. If you got equal value, then you're no better off and if you miss on that deal then you're digging this franchise into a deeper hole.

    Plus, Phillips is pretty much the only reason I watch Reds games these days. Without him this would be a soul-crushingly boring team.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #107
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    12,324

    Re: What's Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Phillips is a top-10 bat at 2B (going by RARP), he might very well be the best defender in the game at 2B, he's great on the bases and he's got the sort of high motor this often listless squad needs more of.

    Frankly, I don't think you could get back a better player for Brandon Phillips than Brandon Phillips. If you got equal value, then you're no better off and if you miss on that deal then you're digging this franchise into a deeper hole.

    Plus, Phillips is pretty much the only reason I watch Reds games these days. Without him this would be a soul-crushingly boring team.
    Agree on Phillips. At his price tag and with his defense, he'd be one of the only guys I'd pretty much not trade unless bowled over. But I would take him out of the 4th spot in the lineup.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  4. #108
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Colorado's eastern plains
    Posts
    11,232

    Re: What's Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by RichRed View Post
    I just caught a glimpse of tonight's lineup on Fay's blog. Let's just say it's Dustastic.
    It shouldn't surprise anyone, that's for sure.

  5. #109
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    8,630

    Re: What's Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    If Valaika can hit and play 2b, I'd strongly consider trading Phillips. I'd also have no hesitation in trading Arroyo, EE, Keppinger, and, in the right deals, Harang, Votto, and Bailey. Only Volquez, Cueto, and Bruce would be on an untouchable list.
    Isn’t true that any member or members of a team can be traded if the GM were to get more in the return to solve his teams problems.

    I wonder also because,
    I don’t think that it is that easy to trade off good fielding second basemen, shortstops, centerfielders or catchers, that can also hit, and to be able to get equal or greater value in return at that position and to at the same time fill other positions from the residuals of those trades. How would you replace the bat and glove of Phillips, when the Reds are short at SS, CF, and C defensively, not to mention some other positions defensively already? Especially knowing that the defense has contributed to a part of the pitching problems?

    As far as just trades, I don't care if Jocketty were to eventually move every player that the Reds have now, "If" he could get greater in return, to me and probably to Jocketty, they are all a resource pool to attempt to derive from a greater return to help his team.

  6. #110
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    8,630

    Re: What's Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by RichRed View Post
    I just caught a glimpse of tonight's lineup on Fay's blog. Let's just say it's Dustastic.
    If he hits Bingo with that lineup we are in trouble, we will never see the end of it.

    Corey Patterson cf
    Paul Janish ss


  7. #111
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    25,389

    Re: What's Wrong

    Corey has been swinging the bat better lately, dude.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  8. #112
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Posts
    3,871

    Re: What's Wrong

    I could almost be banned just for what I'm thinking about our illustrious manager right now.
    "I can make all the stadiums rock."
    -Air Supply

  9. #113
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Bristol, just around the corner from ESPN
    Posts
    8,694

    Re: What's Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Corey has been swinging the bat better lately, dude.
    He certainly couldn't have swung it any worse.

  10. #114
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Bristol, just around the corner from ESPN
    Posts
    8,694

    Re: What's Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by oregonred View Post
    Bingo. More Arroyo then Harang, although we seem to lose everytime Harang starts. If we were getting 2006-2007 numbers from our two veteran anchors, the team is almost certainly .500 or better. Add in KGJ's anemic power production and lack of range in RF and we find its the well paid veterans that are more inconsistent and underperforiming vs. the young kids.
    Anyone wanna convince me that Harang and Arroyo aren't feeling the lingering abuse from Jerry Narron?

    I know it's easy to just blame Narron, but there's plenty of factual support for that claim.

  11. #115
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    8,630

    Re: What's Wrong

    I did not post this lineup moderators to discuss lineups, I posted it as an illustration to the question or topic of the thread, “What’s Wrong”

    When the thread asks “what’s wrong”, the lineups that produce fewer hits, fewer at bats or PA for the teams better hitters, fewer men on base, and fewer runs, runs are a part of what is wrong, leaving men on base, lack of run support for the pitching, adding additional pressures to the Reds pitchers to be too perfect and even pressure on the defense, while making it easier for the oppositions pitchers and defense, I don’t see how it cannot combine to contribute to “what’s wrong”.

    Corey Patterson cf .238 .361 .599

    Paul Janish ss .304 .262 .566

    Ken Griffey Jr. rf .363 .413 .777

    Brandon Phillips 2b .291 .397 .688 against right handed pitchers.

    Adam Dunn lf .403 .518 .921

    Edwin Encarnacion 3b .325 .436 .761

    Joey Votto 1b .348 .490 .838

    David Ross c .352 .317 .669

    Bronson Arroyo p .222 .125 .347

    How many one or two runs games have the Reds lost because something like above, I don't know.

    Baseball Musings Lineup Analysis
    Based on work by Cyril Morong, Ken Arneson and Ryan Armbrust
    Fill in nine players, OBA and Slugging Percentage

    http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-b...eupAnalysis.py

    Runs per game for above lineup: 3.930. X 162 = 636.66 Runs Scored Projection

    The comparison belows is 4.244 runs per game 4.244 x 162 687.528 Run differentiation +51

    Here I am not interested in the lineup that it created, but for illustration it shows a lineup can make a difference in RS runs scored.

    Runs per Game 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    4.244 Ross Dunn Encarncion Griffey Votto Phillips Janish Patterson Arroyo
    4.243 Ross Dunn Encarncion Griffey Votto Patterson Janish Phillips Arroyo
    4.241 Ross Dunn Encarncion Votto Griffey Phillips Janish Patterson Arroyo
    4.241 Ross Dunn Votto Griffey Encarncion Phillips Janish Patterson Arroyo
    4.240 Ross Dunn Encarncion Votto Griffey Patterson Janish Phillips Arroyo
    Last edited by Spring~Fields; 06-12-2008 at 05:10 PM.

  12. #116
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    8,630

    Re: What's Wrong

    Code:
    RK	TEAM	RunsScored	 BA	 OBP	 SLG	 OPS 
    1 Chicago Cubs	369  		.284 	.362 	.447	.809 
    2 Philadelphia	350  		.261 	.339 	.451 	.790 
    3 Florida 	324  		.259 	.325 	.459 	.783 
    4 St. Louis 	320  		.274 	.357 	.419 	.776 
    5 Pittsburgh 	318 		.259 	.327 	.405 	.732 
    6 Arizona 	318 		.251 	.330 	.429 	.759 
    7 Atlanta 	305 		.273 	.350 	.425 	.774 
    8 Cincinnati 	301 		.251 	.329 	.410 	.739 
    9 Houston 	300 		.265 	.322 	.421 	.743 
    10 NY Mets 	300  		.253 	.330 	.390 	.719 
    11 Milwaukee 	289  		.252 	.323 	.418 	.741 
    12 LA Dodgers 	281 		.264 	.332 	.382 	.714 
    13 Colorado 	273 		.256 	.327 	.394 	.722 
    14 San Francisco267 		.262 	.325 	.402 	.727 
    15 San Diego 	244  		.243 	.316 	.370 	.686 
    16 Washington 	243 		.234 	.310 	.356 	.666

  13. #117
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,888

    Re: What's Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Frankly, I don't think you could get back a better player for Brandon Phillips than Brandon Phillips. If you got equal value, then you're no better off and if you miss on that deal then you're digging this franchise into a deeper hole.
    Ya, while he has flaws, the Reds probably don't want to trade Phillips.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #118
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, FL
    Posts
    4,853

    Re: What's Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    For instance, the team is still way too thin on players who can hit and defend.
    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Phillips is a top-10 bat at 2B (going by RARP), he might very well be the best defender in the game at 2B, he's great on the bases and he's got the sort of high motor this often listless squad needs more of.
    Yep. The Reds have had a bunch of "or" players in recent years, but "and" players have been few and far between. Phillips is one. Now that Bruce is here, we have two. Not enough.

    Actually, I'd settle for more players who, if not above-average in both respects, at least weren't a glaring minus in one or the other.
    Last edited by IslandRed; 06-12-2008 at 04:54 PM.
    Not all who wander are lost

  15. #119
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    26,668

    Re: What's Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    I know it's easy to just blame Narron, but there's plenty of factual support for that claim.
    I'm a very open-minded person. Please show that factual support other then subjectiveness based solely on pitch count. :
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  16. #120
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    6,417

    Re: What's Wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Phillips is a top-10 bat at 2B (going by RARP), he might very well be the best defender in the game at 2B, he's great on the bases and he's got the sort of high motor this often listless squad needs more of.

    Frankly, I don't think you could get back a better player for Brandon Phillips than Brandon Phillips. If you got equal value, then you're no better off and if you miss on that deal then you're digging this franchise into a deeper hole.

    Plus, Phillips is pretty much the only reason I watch Reds games these days. Without him this would be a soul-crushingly boring team.
    I agree that Brandon Phillips is a very good 2B. However, I feel that some GM's might overrate his abilities, willing to give up more talent than he is worth in return. I also think that trading Phillips could potentially fill several holes at once while replacing Phillips with Kepp.

    For example, would you prefer Lineup A or Lineup B for 2009?

    A
    C-??
    1B-Votto
    2B-Phillips
    SS-Keppinger
    3B-EE
    LF-Dunn
    CF-??
    RF-Bruce

    B
    C-Filled w/Phillips trade
    1B-Votto
    2B-Keppinger
    SS-AGon/Janish
    3B-EE
    LF-Dunn
    CF-Filled w/Phillips trade
    RF-Bruce

    I strive for a winning team, not an exciting one...

    Quote Originally Posted by SpringfieldFan View Post
    I wonder also because,
    I donít think that it is that easy to trade off good fielding second basemen, shortstops, centerfielders or catchers, that can also hit, and to be able to get equal or greater value in return at that position and to at the same time fill other positions from the residuals of those trades. How would you replace the bat and glove of Phillips, when the Reds are short at SS, CF, and C defensively, not to mention some other positions defensively already? Especially knowing that the defense has contributed to a part of the pitching problems?
    That is why it depends greatly on the return for Phillips. I believe that other GM's would value him highly and that the Reds could get a hefty return for him, potentially filling multiple holes (CF, C, SS, arms) while replacing Phillips with Keppinger, who offers similar production...

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    Yep. The Reds have had a bunch of "or" players in recent years, but "and" players have been few and far between. Phillips is one. Now that Bruce is here, we have two. Not enough.

    Actually, I'd settle for more players who, if not above-average in both respects, at least weren't a glaring minus in one or the other.
    Like Jeff Keppinger? He is just as productive a hitter as Brandon Phillips, and would not be very far behind in overall production since he is a better defender at 2B than he is at SS...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25