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Thread: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

  1. #61
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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    [QUOTE=Hondo;1663440]Man, I am not the one Undervaluing Dunn, is it everyone else on this board...

    For Example... If Adam Dunn was available in Trade on another team...

    And someone suggested we trade for him... Everyone here would say:

    "You would have to trade Jay Bruce, Cueto, and another prosepct for Adam Dunn"

    A lot of people here Do very much UNDERVALUE the Reds players... It is Pathedic...

    Hondo, have you ever talked to any fans of other teams, and gauged their interest in Dunn? Fromt he ones I have spoke to, I would def say we overvalue him, as I have not talked to many people that want him on thier team-maybe they already feel good about their team and dont need him, btu they def dont express an interest, and will generally comment about his k's, and that he is not the key player a team should build around (its up for arguement of course on that). I am only stating this info from my own experiences/conversations, but for you to say people on this board are pathetic for not thinking what you think is "pathedic".

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  3. #62
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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    [QUOTE=bounty37h;1664177]
    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    Man, I am not the one Undervaluing Dunn, is it everyone else on this board...

    For Example... If Adam Dunn was available in Trade on another team...

    And someone suggested we trade for him... Everyone here would say:

    "You would have to trade Jay Bruce, Cueto, and another prosepct for Adam Dunn"

    A lot of people here Do very much UNDERVALUE the Reds players... It is Pathedic...

    Hondo, have you ever talked to any fans of other teams, and gauged their interest in Dunn? Fromt he ones I have spoke to, I would def say we overvalue him, as I have not talked to many people that want him on thier team-maybe they already feel good about their team and dont need him, btu they def dont express an interest, and will generally comment about his k's, and that he is not the key player a team should build around (its up for arguement of course on that). I am only stating this info from my own experiences/conversations, but for you to say people on this board are pathetic for not thinking what you think is "pathedic".
    I didn't say everyone on the Board was "Pathedic"... I said people undervalueing the Reds players are/is "pathedic"...

    I am not trying to get personal here, so I apologize if you took it the wrong way...

    But I think it is oronius for this team to Trade a guy (Adam Dunn), who if he is a Free Agent at seasons end, will be the most coveted Power Producer on the Market... (Manny Ramierez and Vlad are there but they are 35/36, so Dunn at 29 will be highly sought after), For one player with a possibility to become a Good to Great Major Leaguer... If Dunn hits the Free Agent market, you'll see how many teams "Value" his services...

  4. #63
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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    1) Kemp is a centerfielder, and a great one at that. He has a cannon for an arm and has excellent range. Dunn is a below average leftfielder.

    2) Kemp is five years younger than Dunn, meaning that he will be getting better while Dunn will be losing his skills. He also will be much cheaper than Dunn.

    3) Kemp is a righthanded power hitter for the middle of the lineup, something that the Reds desperately need, especially with Bruce and Votto and possible Alonso coming up.

    4) Kemp will provide similar run production to Dunn in GAPB. He's too young to really know what his ceiling is, but he is putting up solid numbers playing a pitchers park. He could easily hit 30 HR and be a 100 RBI, 100 runs guy in GAPB. The last two years, he has averaged around a .860 OPS. Dunn's career is .900. Have them switch ballparks, and they will have very similar OPS.

    Basically, even if Dunn is better player, Kemp fills the Reds needs better, and makes them a better team. I don't want a team of the best players, I want the best team. Kemp instead of Dunn makes the Reds a better team.

    A good example is when the Red Sox traded Nomar, their best and most popular player in 2004. The players they got back were not as good as him, but they made the Red Sox a better team. I think that worked out well for them.

    By the way, the Dodgers would not trade Billingsly or Kershaw straight up for Dunn, let alone both of them and Kemp for Dunn. For that suggestion, I will call you crazy.
    Excellent, excellent post.

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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    [QUOTE=Hondo;1664180]
    Quote Originally Posted by bounty37h View Post

    I didn't say everyone on the Board was "Pathedic"... I said people undervalueing the Reds players are/is "pathedic"...

    I am not trying to get personal here, so I apologize if you took it the wrong way...

    But I think it is oronius for this team to Trade a guy (Adam Dunn), who if he is a Free Agent at seasons end, will be the most coveted Power Producer on the Market... (Manny Ramierez and Vlad are there but they are 35/36, so Dunn at 29 will be highly sought after), For one player with a possibility to become a Good to Great Major Leaguer... If Dunn hits the Free Agent market, you'll see how many teams "Value" his services...
    If Dunn hits the FA market a lot of teams will value his services BECAUSE THEY WILL BE ABLE TO SIGN HIM FOR MORE THAN 1/2 OF THE YEAR!!!!! It's not that difficult to understand. If you trade for him, you only get him for the rest of the year. That diminishes his value greatly. So, even if you think that Dunn is a great player who will command a 5 year $75 mil. contract in free agency (which I do), that's irrelevant to how much he's worth in a trade right now.

    I'm not undervaluing Dunn. I'm realistically valuing him for 1/2 a year's service. Getting a really good and very promising outfield talent with a year and a half left on his rookie deal and 3 years of arbitration for Dunn's 1/2 year is a great return.

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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    [QUOTE=levydl;1664209]
    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post

    If Dunn hits the FA market a lot of teams will value his services BECAUSE THEY WILL BE ABLE TO SIGN HIM FOR MORE THAN 1/2 OF THE YEAR!!!!! It's not that difficult to understand. If you trade for him, you only get him for the rest of the year. That diminishes his value greatly. So, even if you think that Dunn is a great player who will command a 5 year $75 mil. contract in free agency (which I do), that's irrelevant to how much he's worth in a trade right now.

    I'm not undervaluing Dunn. I'm realistically valuing him for 1/2 a year's service. Getting a really good and very promising outfield talent with a year and a half left on his rookie deal and 3 years of arbitration for Dunn's 1/2 year is a great return.
    Are you ignoring the fact that there is the ability to have the 72 hour Window agreement in any trade allowing Any team to negotiate a LTC with the Traded Player and if a deal can not be reached, the deal is Voided...

    That is why that option is there...

    "It's not that difficult to understand."

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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    It will be Pathedic if we don't resign Dunn, but it's looking more inevitable...

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    You're right of course BLEEDS (and levydl), but the real question is do you think the Reds SHOULD sign Dunn to a LTC or deal him?
    Of course they SHOULD - but they SHOULD do a lot of things they don't do.

    I wouldn't be so upset about if, but you don't sign a $46M closer for a last place team.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

  9. #68
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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDS View Post
    Of course they SHOULD - but they SHOULD do a lot of things they don't do.

    I wouldn't be so upset about if, but you don't sign a $46M closer for a last place team.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    The problem I have with people's reaction to the Cordero signing was the interpretation that this means we're planning to win THIS year. His contract was a multiyear deal. Does anybody think we won't be competing in the next few years? I'm positive we'll be competitive starting next year. I think the Reds saw this as an opportunity to grab a solid closer from a team in our division. Not only bettering OUR team but worsening THEIRS. Who knows what closers will be available in the next year or two? They saw one they wanted now and grabbed him for the future. That's the way I see it.
    2014 predictions:
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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    The problem I have with people's reaction to the Cordero signing was the interpretation that this means we're planning to win THIS year. His contract was a multiyear deal. Does anybody think we won't be competing in the next few years? I'm positive we'll be competitive starting next year. I think the Reds saw this as an opportunity to grab a solid closer from a team in our division. Not only bettering OUR team but worsening THEIRS. Who knows what closers will be available in the next year or two? They saw one they wanted now and grabbed him for the future. That's the way I see it.
    Fransisco Rodriguez is available this Offseason... I would gladly rather have him for 15 Million a year than Cordero... Of course I like Cordero too, so I am not saying signing Cordero was a bad move... Just pointing out that K-Rod is available at years end...

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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    The problem I have with people's reaction to the Cordero signing was the interpretation that this means we're planning to win THIS year. His contract was a multiyear deal. Does anybody think we won't be competing in the next few years? I'm positive we'll be competitive starting next year. I think the Reds saw this as an opportunity to grab a solid closer from a team in our division. Not only bettering OUR team but worsening THEIRS. Who knows what closers will be available in the next year or two? They saw one they wanted now and grabbed him for the future. That's the way I see it.
    Agreed, however the rhetoric was there saying they wanted to win NOW, although every action after the Cordero signing said the exact opposite.

    However I would think DUNN would be a part of that equation. Letting 2/3rds of your starting OF, and the two biggest Power guys on the team - and 3/3rds if you count the Hamilton Trade of last year - is not a good recipe for success.

    Jay Bruce can more than take over the reigns from a soon to be 39 year old Griffey (who will be closer to 40 than 39 by next season), but Dunn is hitting his prime and you should be able to pencil him in for 40/100/100/100 - this all out of the FIFTH spot. Moving him down a slot should increase that, especially with a RH power bat and a developing Votto and EE behind him.

    Trying to replace BOTH of those guys is not a good idea, and will likely leave us with 3 $10M+ pitchers on a last place team, again.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

  12. #71
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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    I would hate to see Dunn leave but this seems like a pretty good deal. A long term deal for Dunn would be very pricey. Especially with people like Steinbrenner in the mix. I think it would be a mistake to allow him to walk with no return.
    Ron Popeil apologist.

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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    nevermind
    Last edited by levydl; 06-12-2008 at 12:11 PM.

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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDS View Post
    Agreed, however the rhetoric was there saying they wanted to win NOW, although every action after the Cordero signing said the exact opposite.

    However I would think DUNN would be a part of that equation. Letting 2/3rds of your starting OF, and the two biggest Power guys on the team - and 3/3rds if you count the Hamilton Trade of last year - is not a good recipe for success.

    Jay Bruce can more than take over the reigns from a soon to be 39 year old Griffey (who will be closer to 40 than 39 by next season), but Dunn is hitting his prime and you should be able to pencil him in for 40/100/100/100 - this all out of the FIFTH spot. Moving him down a slot should increase that, especially with a RH power bat and a developing Votto and EE behind him.

    Trying to replace BOTH of those guys is not a good idea, and will likely leave us with 3 $10M+ pitchers on a last place team, again.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    BLEEDS,

    I AGREE with you 100%

    I haven't been posting this thread or Replying in it because I want Dunn traded... I think he is part of the Solution... I just don't want the Reds trading him for 1 player... IMO, he is more valuable resigned to a LTC to the Reds than to be shipped off...

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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    BLEEDS,

    I AGREE with you 100%

    I haven't been posting this thread or Replying in it because I want Dunn traded... I think he is part of the Solution... I just don't want the Reds trading him for 1 player... IMO, he is more valuable resigned to a LTC to the Reds than to be shipped off...
    I agree with that, however I can understand both sides. WITHOUT an LTC, some will look at it as "1/2 a year of DUNN" versus "X, Y or Z"... of course any trade should include a 72 hour window to sign Dunn to an LTC, so some could/should look at it as trading for "5 years of Dunn". But really, it should be irrelevant.

    What the Reds SHOULD be doing is considering "Trading Dunn for X, Y, or Z" or "Not Trading Dunn for anything, and hoping to get 2 2009 draft picks - which don't look like much value - in return". Would I rather have Kemp + X, Y, and/or Z? Sure. Would I rather have Kemp only versus 2 1st round picks in 2009? Probably. Would I rather have Dunn for 5 years at $75M. DEFINITELY.

    Personally, if I could trade Dunn and Bailey for Kemp and some pitching prospects, I would be killing 3.75 birds with one stone at this point...

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

  16. #75
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    Re: ORG Thread says Kemp (LA Dodgers) for Dunn

    Guys I hate to burst your bubble but we have to get Dunner out of left field via trade or 1st base, he has no arm, and mediocre range at best.
    Bowled 9 300 games, semi-retired!

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