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Thread: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in June!

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  1. #1
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    The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in June!

    Not to mention that he gives up numerous run per year with his horrible defense!

    The Reds must let Dunn walk or trade him this year. How can anyone believe he deserves a mega-deal?
    Last edited by 44Magnum; 06-13-2008 at 01:49 PM.
    80% of the earth is covered by water. The other 20% is covered by Eric Davis.

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    Re: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in Jun

    Has this issue ever been addressed before?
    FIRE DUSTY BAKER

    ADOPT THIS SIGNATURE IN SOLIDARITY!!!

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    Re: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in Jun

    His OBP is almost .400 and his OPS is about .900. I was once a longtime Adam Dunn basher, hater, whatever you call it. Once I finally let go and realized he is what he is and is going to give you 40+bombs, OBP around .385 I have began to realize he is better than I thought. Batting average is the most overrated stat in baseball. They get is to score runs, how do you score runs, first you get on base. Batting average is accounted for in OBP. 2nd you need to get the runners on base in to score.

    Dunn currently has gotten 26 rbi in 54 ab's with RISP while batting .222. His BA is the same with RISP and nobody on. This tells one thing, pitchers are afraid of him and pitch him selectively with first base empty. This explains the high OBP and low batting average. His batting average with runners on, which would include every situation with a RISP and runner on first is .240 with an OBP of .406, he gets more pitches to hit.

    He is also a career .278 hitter out of the 2 spot. Which may be concluded to this being the only time he has a feared hitter batting behind him. Im sure it was alway Jr behind him in the 3 spot. Say what u want about Griffey, ppl still fear him.

    I say we try to get Dunn for 4yrs 50-55 million range, but let's not overpay and strap us financially.

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    Re: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in Jun

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    I say we try to get Dunn for 4yrs 50-55 million range, but let's not overpay and strap us financially.

    We will never get Dunn for that amount. It'll be closer to 4-years $60-65 million.

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    Re: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in Jun

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    His OBP is almost .400 and his OPS is about .900. I was once a longtime Adam Dunn basher, hater, whatever you call it. Once I finally let go and realized he is what he is and is going to give you 40+bombs, OBP around .385 I have began to realize he is better than I thought. Batting average is the most overrated stat in baseball. They get is to score runs, how do you score runs, first you get on base. Batting average is accounted for in OBP. 2nd you need to get the runners on base in to score.

    Dunn currently has gotten 26 rbi in 54 ab's with RISP while batting .222. His BA is the same with RISP and nobody on. This tells one thing, pitchers are afraid of him and pitch him selectively with first base empty. This explains the high OBP and low batting average. His batting average with runners on, which would include every situation with a RISP and runner on first is .240 with an OBP of .406, he gets more pitches to hit.

    He is also a career .278 hitter out of the 2 spot. Which may be concluded to this being the only time he has a feared hitter batting behind him. Im sure it was alway Jr behind him in the 3 spot. Say what u want about Griffey, ppl still fear him.

    I say we try to get Dunn for 4yrs 50-55 million range, but let's not overpay and strap us financially.
    There are too many young players comming up for the Reds to make such a hugh commitment to Dunn. They need to throw that money at some starters instead.

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    Re: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in Jun

    Quote Originally Posted by thorn View Post
    They need to throw that money at some starters instead.
    Who? Remember Eric Milton?

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    Re: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in Jun

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Who? Remember Eric Milton?
    So you don't think we should try and sign FA pitchers in the future because of Milton?

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    Re: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in Jun

    Quote Originally Posted by thorn View Post
    There are too many young players comming up for the Reds to make such a hugh commitment to Dunn. They need to throw that money at some starters instead.
    What are you talking about?

    Ok, say we save 15 Million Dollars a year with not signing Dunn...

    What are you going to do, or better yet, who are you going to get?

    Weathers 3.3 Million, Patterson 3 Million, Stanton 3 Million, Ross 2.525 Million, Hatteberg 1.85 Million... All players who shouldn't be here next year...

    There's a chunk of Change right there...

    Not too mention: Alex Gonzalez 4.6 Million (A joke for his Play and Offense)
    Ryan Freel 3 Million (Great guy but not worth 3 Million)

    Also, Griffey won't be eating 8.3 Million, so his Salary is off the Books...

    This team was constructed very stupidly... By Krivisky...

    Even though he traded for Volquez...

    What is the best way to go???? You just let us know...
    Last edited by Hondo; 06-13-2008 at 02:02 PM.

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    Re: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in Jun

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    Also, Griffey won't be eating 8.3 Million, so his Salary is off the Books...
    Griffey won't be off the books until 2024.
    That Joey Votto is some kind of Man Candy!

    "For them to boo me like that, it lets me know they dream about me at night. -- Brandon Phillips on Cards fans.

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    Re: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in Jun

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    His OBP is almost .400 and his OPS is about .900. I was once a longtime Adam Dunn basher, hater, whatever you call it. Once I finally let go and realized he is what he is and is going to give you 40+bombs, OBP around .385 I have began to realize he is better than I thought. Batting average is the most overrated stat in baseball. They get is to score runs, how do you score runs, first you get on base. Batting average is accounted for in OBP. 2nd you need to get the runners on base in to score.

    Dunn currently has gotten 26 rbi in 54 ab's with RISP while batting .222. His BA is the same with RISP and nobody on. This tells one thing, pitchers are afraid of him and pitch him selectively with first base empty. This explains the high OBP and low batting average. His batting average with runners on, which would include every situation with a RISP and runner on first is .240 with an OBP of .406, he gets more pitches to hit.

    He is also a career .278 hitter out of the 2 spot. Which may be concluded to this being the only time he has a feared hitter batting behind him. Im sure it was alway Jr behind him in the 3 spot. Say what u want about Griffey, ppl still fear him.

    I say we try to get Dunn for 4yrs 50-55 million range, but let's not overpay and strap us financially.
    I disagree with much of that. Dunn is a perfect example where sabermetrics and fantasy baseball statistics fail. Sometimes you simply have to watch the player and use your gut instincts. He's just another one of our inconsistent all-or-nothing unintelligent players who disappear for weeks at a time and is shaky in the field. That's not a winning combination. The game of baseball is more nuanced than simply turning to OPS and sabermetrics. You win consistently by playing consistently and playing fundamentally sound baseball.

  11. #11
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in Jun

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuxhall41 View Post
    I disagree with much of that. Dunn is a perfect example where sabermetrics and fantasy baseball statistics fail. Sometimes you simply have to watch the player and use your gut instincts. He's just another one of our inconsistent all-or-nothing unintelligent players who disappear for weeks at a time and is shaky in the field. That's not a winning combination. The game of baseball is more nuanced than simply turning to OPS and sabermetrics. You win consistently by playing consistently and playing fundamentally sound baseball.
    Statistics don't lie. They are a measure of production. By watching Dunn, many Reds fans get frustrated by his strikeouts and inability to hit the ball the opposite way. That frustration makes you ignore the good things he does. How is he unintelligent? His defense has certainly improved to the point where he is an adequate LF. He is streaky, yes, but please fill me in on how you plan on replacing 100 runs, 100 RBI, 40 HR's, and a .900 OPS?

    It's not Dunn's fault that Dusty is miserable at constructing lineups. Put Dunn at the top of the order and you will realize how valuable he is to this team.

    Never has a guy done so much and gotten so little love for it than Adam Dunn.

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    Re: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in Jun

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Statistics don't lie. They are a measure of production. By watching Dunn, many Reds fans get frustrated by his strikeouts and inability to hit the ball the opposite way. That frustration makes you ignore the good things he does. How is he unintelligent? His defense has certainly improved to the point where he is an adequate LF. He is streaky, yes, but please fill me in on how you plan on replacing 100 runs, 100 RBI, 40 HR's, and a .900 OPS?

    It's not Dunn's fault that Dusty is miserable at constructing lineups. Put Dunn at the top of the order and you will realize how valuable he is to this team.

    Never has a guy done so much and gotten so little love for it than Adam Dunn.
    Homer, where would this team be without his 16 Homers 41 RBI, 56 BB, and 36 runs...

    I mean look at his runs... The guys hitting behind him have been pathetic... Save for Votto... But the real culprit has been Edwin!

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    Re: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in Jun

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Statistics don't lie.
    For numerous reasons, they most certainly can - especially if there is no situational component to a given statistic.

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    Re: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in Jun

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuxhall41 View Post
    I disagree with much of that. Dunn is a perfect example where sabermetrics and fantasy baseball statistics fail. Sometimes you simply have to watch the player and use your gut instincts. He's just another one of our inconsistent all-or-nothing unintelligent players who disappear for weeks at a time and is shaky in the field. That's not a winning combination. The game of baseball is more nuanced than simply turning to OPS and sabermetrics. You win consistently by playing consistently and playing fundamentally sound baseball.
    So basically you are saying walks are not important, getting on base is not important. A .300 BA and a .330obp is better than a .230ba and a .400 obp. Getting on base and driving in runs is the key to baseball offensively. I am not a sabermetric fellow and havent even posted them in my argument.

    And you win by scoring more runs than the other team. Right now we have 2 below average to average defensive outfielders, one of those (griffey) will most likely be gone. Jay Bruce will be a good right fielder, get a solid defender and center and Dunn's defense isn't a big deal and definitely doesn't outweigh his offense. What makes Dunn so inconsistent and not fundamentally sound. He is a discplined hitter, doesn't typically make bad baserunning mistakes (Freel) and seems like a good teammate. Not to mention, he has some really consistent career numbers.

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    Re: The Reds can't offer a long-term contract to a player that is hitting .229 in Jun

    And also Nuxhall, i want to know you response to Dunn never having a hitter behind him, and how he produces in the 2 spot with Griffey behind him.


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