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Thread: Bruce a lead off hitter??

  1. #1
    Reds fan for life!!!! WVPacman's Avatar
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    Bruce a lead off hitter??

    I don't like it at all guys and I really think it is hurting Bruce bigtime b/c he isn't a leadoff hitter and he does'nt look comfortable at all at the plate.If Dusty isn't going to let Hopper play in place of Patterson then I think Phillips should be our leadoff hitter.He can hit,he can bunt and he hits line drives,and he can run and steal bases.Dusty has to do something b/c Bruce being our leadoff guy isn't working at all.
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    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce a lead off hitter??

    Quote Originally Posted by WVPacman View Post
    I don't like it at all guys and I really think it is hurting Bruce bigtime b/c he isn't a leadoff hitter and he does'nt look comfortable at all at the plate.If Dusty isn't going to let Hopper play in place of Patterson then I think Phillips should be our leadoff hitter.He can hit,he can bunt and he hits line drives,and he can run and steal bases.Dusty has to do something b/c Bruce being our leadoff guy isn't working at all.
    I'm with ya, buddy. I don't think it is hurting Bruce long-term, but he definitely looks uncomfortable at the plate. Keep in mind that he has Paul Bako hitting ahead of him, and Paul Janish behind him--not exactly much protection. He was doing better when he had Jerry Hairston Jr. ahead of him and Ken Griffey Jr. behind him. Personally, I would put Bruce back in the #2 spot, and bat Votto leadoff and Phillips third (at least in the AL parks with the DH). However, it all comes down to the fact that Bruce is going to have to make adjustments to counteract the adjustments that pitchers around the league have made on him. Once he does that, it won't matter where he bats!
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce a lead off hitter??

    While I'm wont to nitpick, I'll do my best to not complain about having good hitters at the top of the lineup. It certainly is better than the alternative.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Bruce a lead off hitter??

    Pitchers/teams have mad adjustments on Bruce after his torrid start. Now it's in Jay's court to respond. I'm confident he will, but it just goes to show he is 21 and still has some learninng to do.

    His recent struggles also make me very leary about not re-signing AD. I think it's pretty risky to put the whole burden of the offense on the shoulders of young guys like Bruce, Votto, Frazier, Alonso (plus BP & EE),etc.

    If Dunn is allowed to walk, Jocketty MUST find a way to add at least one major experienced bat to this lineup (via trade or FA) before next spring. Too bad Texas wouldn't do Dunn for Volquez last winter.

    Chipper Jones is a nice pipe dream.

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce a lead off hitter??

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    I'm with ya, buddy. I don't think it is hurting Bruce long-term, but he definitely looks uncomfortable at the plate. Keep in mind that he has Paul Bako hitting ahead of him, and Paul Janish behind him--not exactly much protection. He was doing better when he had Jerry Hairston Jr. ahead of him and Ken Griffey Jr. behind him. Personally, I would put Bruce back in the #2 spot, and bat Votto leadoff and Phillips third (at least in the AL parks with the DH). However, it all comes down to the fact that Bruce is going to have to make adjustments to counteract the adjustments that pitchers around the league have made on him. Once he does that, it won't matter where he bats!
    This the key in more than 1 way. It's no coincidence as Jay didn't have to do as much when guy's around him were being productive. Now those guys aren't around him (Hairston more specifically) and he's pressing trying to make up for the loss of Hairston.

    That's all and that's it IMO, he's swinging at stuff out of the zone early on and once he get's into a hole teams are forcing him to hit the outside pitch where it's at and he's trying to yank it out of the park. He needs to be taken out of the position before he turns himself into a hacker for an even longer stretch. But I don't think it's a real problem long term but it could (Pat Burrell) be if it's not addressed by him and/or the staff.
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    Re: Bruce a lead off hitter??

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    Pitchers/teams have mad adjustments on Bruce after his torrid start. Now it's in Jay's court to respond. I'm confident he will, but it just goes to show he is 21 and still has some learninng to do.
    Yep, I agree. I think he would be facing these same problems no matter where he batted in the lineup. He's just been striking out more and he keeps swinging at bad low offspeed pitches. Teams have been scouting him and figuring out his weaknesses. Once he cuts down on that and forces pitchers to throw stuff over the plate (more frequently), he will start raking again.

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    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce a lead off hitter??

    Quote Originally Posted by WVPacman View Post
    I don't like it at all guys and I really think it is hurting Bruce bigtime b/c he isn't a leadoff hitter and he does'nt look comfortable at all at the plate.If Dusty isn't going to let Hopper play in place of Patterson then I think Phillips should be our leadoff hitter.He can hit,he can bunt and he hits line drives,and he can run and steal bases.Dusty has to do something b/c Bruce being our leadoff guy isn't working at all.
    Bruce 21, is a very young rookie who struggled in spring training leading off, and is again struggling while leading off at this level.

    I believe that I would have preferred that he had received traditional rookie treatment by having him bat down in the order until he had shown consistency to have earned the trip up in the order, while the more seasoned players are batting upward, if they have the OBP to support them hitting upward.

    There is really no reason that a Phillips, Dunn, Votto or Encancion can't bat up toward the top, even on top. Something like Phillips, Dunn, Votto, Encarncion, Griffey, Bruce, etc. other than personal politics.

    Most say that lineup order doesn't matter anyway, so what's the problem with doing something like that above, since it won't matter anyway, until Hairston and Keppinger are back? Unless the ss and cf have to bat one, two.

    Let the older players take on most of the pressure to perform.

    Strange that Baker would complain or tell the story about the time that Patterson was a rookie with all the hype, Baker wanted him to hit leadoff and Patterson struggled in Chicago, and Baker turns around and puts the well hpyed Bruce at a young age leading off, dejavu?

    Meaning, I would think that Baker would somewhat shelter his rookie from some of the pit falls that his experience as a player and a manager has taught him. On Votto 24, Baker was indicating that Votto wasn't ready to hit up in the order, oddly enough Bruce is ? People ask why the team is inconsistent, the manager of the team, himself, is walking talking inconsistent, that might be a part of it.

    Bruce was getting some walks when he came up and being more selective, then he started swinging, looking like some others. Makes me think that it was suggested that he be more aggressive. Bruce will come out of it, and learn to be selective in what he pays attention to in batting.

    Bruce splits
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...playerId=28954

    If the espn stats records are correct:

    June 73 8 18 2 0 3 8 8 0 22 0 2 .247 .321 .397 .718

    Last 7 6 24 1 3 0 0 0 0 3 11 0 0 .125 OBP .222 SLG .125 .347

    Batting #1 24 2 4 0 0 1 1 2 0 5 0 0 .167 OBP .231 SLG .292 .523
    Batting #2 46 12 20 4 0 2 10 9 0 11 2 2 .435 .527 .652 1.179
    Batting #3 21 2 4 0 0 1 1 2 1 7 0 0 .190 .292 .333 .625


    vs. BOS 12 1 1 0 0 1 1 1 0 2 0 0 .083 .154 .333 .487
    vs. NYY 4 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 2 0 0 .250 .400 .250 .650
    vs.LAD 12 0 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 7 0 0 .167 .231 .167 .398
    vs. PHI 15 2 3 0 0 1 1 1 0 2 0 0 .200 .250 .400 .650

    Why keep a batter that is struggling that bad at leadoff, why keep them leading off?

    The only other player that we have seen go through that recently was Patterson. Baker kept him up there while he struggled and it hurt the offense, now he is keeping Bruce up there while he is clearly struggling, was the Patterson experiments a good idea?
    Last edited by Spring~Fields; 06-22-2008 at 03:38 AM.

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    Re: Bruce a lead off hitter??

    Since June 8 (Today not included) Bruce is 8/46 .174 BA. He's drawn 4 walks for a .240 OB% and he's K'd 17 times.

  10. #9
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce a lead off hitter??

    Quote Originally Posted by Hollcat View Post
    Since June 8 (Today not included) Bruce is 8/46 .174 BA. He's drawn 4 walks for a .240 OB% and he's K'd 17 times.
    Yikes. I knew there would be a crash after that initial burst, but I didn't realize it was this bad.

  11. #10
    Captain Rounding Third's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce a lead off hitter??

    Bruce is 3/30 leading off for a .100 batting average this year.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi...=bruceja01&t=b

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    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce a lead off hitter??

    Quote Originally Posted by Rounding Third View Post
    Bruce is 3/30 leading off for a .100 batting average this year.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi...=bruceja01&t=b
    It's not working out too well, those numbers are objective and not an opinion.

    Naturally since we have questioned his leading off, the next time, he will probably set the world on fire hitting against Cy Young

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    Re: Bruce a lead off hitter??

    I'd be for batting Phillips off if I thought it would make him more selectibe and shorten his swing in certain situations . The Creeper was saying yesterday that he thought that Phillips was over-swinging and trying to pull everything to live up to the cleanup in the lineup.

    I'd like to think he would shorten his swing, be more selective and go the other way more often if put inthe top spot. There's a very high likliehood I'd be wrong though.

    I'd like to see Bruce hitting 6th or 7th for the remainder of the year.

  14. #13
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce a lead off hitter??

    Bruce is having a hard time of it. IN the last ten games, he is 6-37 (.162), but more alarmingly, he has one homer and only one RBI. That's a direct result of pitchers finding a way to pitch him (low and outside) and the fact that batting so high, he gets few opportunities to see pitchers is stressful situations (runners on).

    Of course, he just may be moving back to where he should be after a hot start, but those statistics are alarming.
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  15. #14
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce a lead off hitter??

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Bruce is having a hard time of it. IN the last ten games, he is 6-37 (.162), but more alarmingly, he has one homer and only one RBI. That's a direct result of pitchers finding a way to pitch him (low and outside) and the fact that batting so high, he gets few opportunities to see pitchers is stressful situations (runners on).

    Of course, he just may be moving back to where he should be after a hot start, but those statistics are alarming.
    Bruce looks as lost as Dunn, Janish, Patterson, or a Phillips against RH P, or Griffey against LH P, or worse than each of them now.

    Looks like Bruce needs a couple days off to relax and clear his head, maybe take those days to watch some film.


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