Red's minor league prospects not making a very good showing

[membengal]

Atleast I have the cahunas to go out on a limb and state my opinion.

So what if I have strong opinions. So many on here don't have the guts to make predictions.

We may have talent in the minors, but the point of my post is that our minor league system won't be supplying any major leaguers for a couple of more seasons at this point. Most of the talent is in A-ball, either high or low. I just don't see Jukich being ready anytime soon, AND I LIKE JUKICH ALOT. I would love for him to be in the mix of coming to the majors, but I still think he has a long way to go.

I think alot of people on this board think we can unload Dunn and Griffey (which I'd love to do) and re-stock from our farm system. AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN right now.

We will have to go the free agency route. Nobody in the minors is ready to replace those guys.

The above bolded parts are a joke, right? What in the name of all that is holy are you talking about? This place is full of nothing but strong opinions. But, hey, thanks for being the only one on here who has ever made a prediction. That's definitely a first for this part of the board...sheesh.

On top of that, your particular prediction is ridiculously misinformed. But at least you had the guts to have a misinformed opinion. Gosh, what a rarity.

ETA: There are at least two guys who would make a positive impact on this team now, by the way. Without question Josh Roenicke. And I think Cumberland would be an immediate upgrade on Patterson. That's in addition to the five the farm system has already fed the big club. And by this time next year? Frazier, Valakia, Wood, Lecure, and others may very well be knocking on the door. Jukich should be competing for a spot in the rotation next spring. And there is a wave beyond that.

[corkedbat]

Atleast I have the cahunas to go out on a limb and state my opinion.

So what if I have strong opinions. So many on here don't have the guts to make predictions.

Wow, guess that makes you the big Kajone

[RedlegJake]

Actually I see where he Chatter is coming from to a degree. There are no big guns waiting in the wings that can be considered immediate possibilities. Roenicke is going to have some struggles, I think, if called up now because of control. He'd still be an improvement over Maj. Cumberland would be better than Patterson? I agree but that's damning with faint praise is it not? And I expect Cumberland to be an average major leaguer at best. Now that is helpful but it's not major impact land. Chatter is pretty much right about IMMEDIATE impact players. Frazier is the next impact type hitter and I don;t think he can be called ready or near ready just yet. Another year. Chatter also said most of the best talent is in the low minors and I'd agree with that. Not unusual considering the number of players brought up that have siphoned the cream off the top. Now, if Chatter is saying he thinks there are no good players at any level then I'd strongly disagree and say his opinion was all wrong but as he couched it

We may have talent in the minors, but the point of my post is that our minor league system won't be supplying any major leaguers for a couple of more seasons at this point. Most of the talent is in A-ball, either high or low. I just don't see Jukich being ready anytime soon, AND I LIKE JUKICH ALOT. I would love for him to be in the mix of coming to the majors, but I still think he has a long way to go.

he isn't far off base. I'm of the opinion that Frazier will be ready by June next season, and Jukich will make a strong push for a role next spring. Also Herrerra and Roenicke will likely be candidates along with Cumberland, Dickerson, Rosales, Tatum and Guitierrez (guys that will have to be on the 40 man if they are going to be protected and so will get the first shots) but I don't see anyone in that group making a huge impact. Most would be bench/mid-relief players if they stick. Frazier is the one guy with impact, possibly Cumberland if he could win the CF role and that's a BIG if, imo. I've lost a lot of enthusiasm for Maloney.

Finally Chatter's opinion of Stubbs is so out of line it deserves the shots some have made at him? If you made me pull out my checkbook to bet on Stubbs or not - I'd take the not. I don't feel as strongly as ChatterRed does and have high hopes Drew progresses but I don't think Chatter deserves to be ridiculed for an opinion.

I have a ton of respect for Doug's minor league expertise, and for mem and for most of you guys, but anyone opining in the critical side about a touted prospect gets lambasted. Showing reasons why you think Chatter's opinion (or mine or anyone's) is wrong is fine but blasting him and ridiculing him for having an opinion is wrong.

I think the thread title kind of got Chatter in hot water as it got many (myself included) thinking "what the...". Then he made a civil reply and got more criticsm. Then this thread fell off the track. Chatter made a defensive post, obviously starting to feel attacked and things regressed from there.

So to put a wrap to it - Chatter I respect your opinion. I don't agree with a lot of it but so what? You're just as likely to be right as I am - we'll just have to see.

[membengal]

I apologize for attacking, to the extent I did. It is just that this place has no shortage of people willing to make predictions and take stands, it kinda pushed a button to see it stated as a place opposite than that.

That aside, it is completely unrealistic for an organizaiton to dump 2/5 of a starting rotation and 2/8 of an everyday line-up into the majors and expect there to be another four immediately right behind it of the quality that just went north. Bruce/Cueto/Votto are clearly major league caliber players. I suspect Thompson is going to be as well.

So the question is what one expects of a minor league system. I think, for your average team, having guys available to plug holes and help grind to wins is a decent yearly hope, with the occasional player more valuable than that. In the last three years, the system has delivered better than that, with EE and the aforementioned big four arriving with some success.

Despite that, there ARE a slew of players coming who may even become what the above were. The timeframe for that is not this year (those players have arrived), it is next year and the year after. And in that timeframe, there are more coming.

Even in the interim, Homer Bailey still lurks (whatever it is that he is at this point), and 22 is not exactly old. Volquez was a bust in Texas at age 22. Yaneverknow. Yeah Patterson blows mule, but at least Cumberland is close and available. If it were me running the team, he would be in now. Roenicke should be here now as well. He'll take lumps? Of course, all rookies do, but that doesn't mean he is not immediately available as an impact player.

In short, I still reject the premise. But apologize for my tone. Sorry.

[bucksfan2]

What is immediate? Last season Bruce was in A ball. Valakia could possibly end up in AAA by the end of the season and guys like Fraizer and Stubbs can finish the season in AA. Another question is where does Alonso end up at the end of the season? If he is in A+ or AA he is one hot streak away from being in AAA. So yes the Reds have lost quite a bit from the farm system as of late but that doesn't mean that the system isn't stocked. It may not have the high end talent or star power that it did last season but it still could be a very good system.

[HokieRed]

I think we will have Bailey (if not at Cinti.), Jukich, Maloney, Ramirez, Lecure, Cumberland, Valaika, Eymann, Roenicke, Herrera, and possibly Dorn at L'ville by Sept 1. I'd be surprised if many other organizations have that many AAA players with a legitimate shot at being major league players. They may not be at the impact level of the group that has just come up, but that's a fair amount of depth pretty close by--and having good players in the supporting roles allows the major league club to avoid the trap of having to pay outrageously for experienced mediocrity--something that did Wayne K in as much as anything--Patterson, Castro, Stanton, Cormier et. al.

[Betterread]

I'm not sure I agree with you Chatter. Homer and Matt Maloney will both get opportunities to start games with the Reds this year and Roenicke will get called up too. They are all top 10 Reds prospects and if called up, expectations will be high. Then after them, there is Valaika, Dickerson, Turner, Dorn, Cumberland, and LeCure that may all get a chance in 2008 (they are all in AA or higher). This group is not universally graded as high as the first three prospects, but they are projected major leaguers.

[HokieRed]

Guy rarely gets any mention but is, I think, making it harder to ignore him. Eymann at Chatt. for June is .360/.389/.523/.912. 86 AB's, 6 2b's/ 1 3b/ 2 HR's/ 14 RBI/ 11K's. He hit .330 in May, too, after having a bad April. The knock on him has been he doesn't have a lot of power, but he seems to be hitting with more power all the time and he's on base to have 35-40 doubles for the year.

[PuffyPig]

We may have talent in the minors, but the point of my post is that our minor league system won't be supplying any major leaguers for a couple of more seasons at this point. Most of the talent is in A-ball, either high or low. I just don't see Jukich being ready anytime soon, AND I LIKE JUKICH ALOT. I would love for him to be in the mix of coming to the majors, but I still think he has a long way to go.

At this time last year, nobody would have thought that Cueto or Thompson had any chance to be in our 2008 rotation, as each was still in A ball. And Volquez wasn't even on our team, nor was Maloney.

[OnBaseMachine]

Guy rarely gets any mention but is, I think, making it harder to ignore him. Eymann at Chatt. for June is .360/.389/.523/.912. 86 AB's, 6 2b's/ 1 3b/ 2 HR's/ 14 RBI/ 11K's. He hit .330 in May, too, after having a bad April. The knock on him has been he doesn't have a lot of power, but he seems to be hitting with more power all the time and he's on base to have 35-40 doubles for the year.

Eymann was rated as the best defensive shortstop in the Big-10 in 2004 when he was at Illinois. I believe the transferred to Kansas State the following year. Anyway, I'm curious as to how good his defense really is. His power seems to be developing pretty good but he really needs to learn to walk more as he's only walked 10 times in 229 atbats.

[camisadelgolf]

He's pretty big for a shortstop. I think he's no more a shortstop than Adam Rosales.

[ChatterRed]

At this time last year, nobody would have thought that Cueto or Thompson had any chance to be in our 2008 rotation, as each was still in A ball. And Volquez wasn't even on our team, nor was Maloney.

I thought Cueto would make the starting rotation. I thought Thompson would be in triple A. I was close.