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Thread: Anybody else upset???????

  1. #46
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I don't care about about lineups, stupid bunts, and the like (though I reserve the right to complain). I just want to see our young guys continue to develop. Because if that doesn't happen, nothing else really matters.
    I saw that watching the younger players develop is all that is left to this season, weeks ago, as I am sure that you did also, and you're right if they don't, how many future seasons are already in the tank without their development?

    Unless Castellini and his group wants to carry a payroll like St. Louis and Chicago did where Jocketty and Baker prospered before coming to Cincinnati, they don't have those same discretionary funds with Cincinnati that they did in St. Louis and Chicago at this time. While it is also a factor that the competition will still be out there the entire way attempting to improve their teams as the Reds work on theirs.

    St. Louis, Chicago and Houston significantly out spend the Reds organization and will probably continue to as player cost continues to rise.

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  3. #47
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    The main problem - and this is where fans the team itself gets in trouble - is that we need to separate the dreams from reality. It seems as though there's a large chunk of fans who believe this talent infusion will morph the Reds into an offensive juggernaut. What I mean by this is people start believing, no hoping, that certain young players turn into a specific dream. And when it doesn't happen (odds are much greater it won't than it will), people are left hanging.
    Don't get me wrong Cyclone. Their maturation wouldn't make us a great offensive team and I am in no way suggesting that we can or should simply sit back and wait. I agree completely that we cannot assume Bruce will be a star, Votto will be anything more than he already is, and that EE will ever be more than league average. Rather, I'm suggesting that if they don't develop, we're screwed for the next 2-3 years anyways. So while I will continue to hope Jocketty goes out and adds more talent, my attention the remainder of 2008 will be focused on following their development.

    How Jocketty pivots in to 2009 should be quite interesting. Just don't confuse my willingness to sit back and watch the development of the guys we have with the notion that we can rely on said development for our future success.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  4. #48
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Plus this is the classic late decade crapfest by the Reds before a rise

    1968 - so close no pitching
    1977 - fall from grace
    1989 - Rose and injuries
    1998 - 77 Wins and a deal of the Reds AS rep

    You gotta dream
    Yep. It stinks that the Reds are stinking up the joint so early in the season but it's still going to be an exciting second half of the season IMO. Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Johnny Cueto, Edinson Volquez, and Daryl Thompson are all going to be fun to watch. They give us hope. They're the reasons why the future looks bright for this club. Hopefully Jocketty can deal off some of the high priced vets and land some more young talent to go with the existing talent and build this team toward a winner in 2009 and beyond.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  5. #49
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Rather, I'm suggesting that if they don't develop, we're screwed for the next 2-3 years anyways. So while I will continue to hope Jocketty goes out and adds more talent, my attention the remainder of 2008 will be focused on following their development.

    How Jocketty pivots in to 2009 should be quite interesting. Just don't confuse my willingness to sit back and watch the development of the guys we have with the notion that we can rely on said development for our future success.


    Yes

  6. #50
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Dickerson is likely to be worse than Patterson. Totally overmatched, just like Janish.. That doesn't mean that Patterson is good, but at least Patterson has a small chance to hit. Dickerson and Janish have virtually no chance to hit.

    There is really no internal options at this time to replace Patterson. The Reds are going to have to pick up an OF or two for next year, but they are in a sticky spot. Let's say they pick up a starting caliber OF, with the intention of starting him next year.. Unless Jr or Dunn is sent away, there's no where to play him unless you send Bruce to the bench or AAA. I know some will say to bench Jr, but that's just not going to happen.
    Patterson doesn't even have a chance to take a pitch, much less hit. Maybe Dickerson would at least see 4 or 5 pitches an at bat.

    Besides, he would be guarenteed to be at least more interesting. I have a better swing than Patterson does. He is an almost guarenteed can-o-corn every time up.
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  7. #51
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    Just because we haven't seen Dickerson play, doesn't mean the Reds brass haven't seen him play. I'm sure they have seen enough of him to conclude that he would be of no help to the club (at least at this stage of his career), and that the team (either for the short term, long term, or both), is better off having Patterson in Cincinnati and Dickerson in Louisville. Now if you don't agree with--or have doubts about--Walt's talent-evaluating capability, then that's a whole different topic.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  8. #52
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Hopper's the only one I'm upset about it. He has no place on this roster. He brings nothing.
    I'd add Valentin to that list as well.

  9. #53
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    I don't know why so many are upset over one Corey Patterson starting when we've been trying to convert (make starting material) out of "Corey Patterson's" (marginal utility players) on this team for years.

    Our FO is obviously able to see something in these guys we're all missing.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  10. #54
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    I'd add Valentin to that list as well.
    Valentin's been known to hit a double or two in his career. Even a HR.

  11. #55
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Valentin's been known to hit a double or two in his career. Even a HR.
    Fair enough, but they are treating Valentin like a DH (minus his circus act at 3B the last couple of games). We never see Valentin in the field, and Valentin's our saving grace as a a PH. Whoopie.

    You are correct that Hopper is utterly useless. Fields worse than Dunn, and his SLG borders on being lower than his OBP (90+% of which is driven by his AVG).

    Very rarely do you see a guy wasting a roster spot by being solely a PR.

  12. #56
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Fair enough, but they are treating Valentin like a DH (minus his circus act at 3B the last couple of games). We never see Valentin in the field, and Valentin's our saving grace as a a PH. Whoopie.

    You are correct that Hopper is utterly useless. Fields worse than Dunn, and his SLG borders on being lower than his OBP (90+% of which is driven by his AVG).

    Very rarely do you see a guy wasting a roster spot by being solely a PR.
    In all fairness, he's not a third baseman... he's just playing where he's told, unlike an Astro player who shall not be named. You certainly can not expect him to do well there.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  13. #57
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    Sometimes when things seem to go so bad I find myself thinking that the bench is calling the pitches and that someone on the bench has given the various batters that all seem to go bad at once, some bad advice, and I have no clue why I think that.

    I just can't see how so many batters go so bad seemingly at once for a sustained period of time against various pitchers. On the other hand I imagine the bench is calling the pitches because the announcers will complain about the pitches called in an order or pitch selection and the pitcher gets rocked, again I find it hard to believe so many could be so bad at times.

    I guess it is the clouds of defeat clouding my mind.

  14. #58
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    Jocketty needs to bring in his own people Tony Larusa, Dave Duncan and McRae. Baker, Pole and the rest of the coaching staff are not up to Jocketty standards of excellence.

    Code:
                      ERA
    Josh Fogg        9.85 
    Danny Herrera    9.00 
    Homer Bailey     8.76 
    Matt Belisle     7.28 
    B. Arroyo        6.52 
    Todd Coffey      6.46 
    Gary Majewski    5.06 
    Johnny Cueto     5.01 
    Mike Lincoln     4.58 
    Aaron Harang     4.51 
    J. Affeldt       4.38 
    D. Weathers      3.86 
    Kent Mercker     3.29
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/...ype=2&type=reg

    Code:
    Last Seven          BA   OBP
    J. Keppinger       .154 .267 .154 .421 
    J. Valentin        .167 .167 .167 .333 
    Jay Bruce          .174 .192 .217 .410 
    C. Patterson       .176 .176 .412 .588 
    Adam Dunn          .190 .261 .333 .594 
    K. Griffey Jr.     .217 .280 .478 .758 
    Paul Janish        .222 .417 .222 .639 
    J. Hairston Jr.    .250 .250 .250 .500 
    E. Encarnacion     .250 .333 .375 .708 
    B. Phillips        .318 .360 .364 .724 
    David Ross         .333 .429 .333 .762 
    Joey Votto         .348 .400 .565 .965
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/...ype=2&type=reg

    I just don't believe that so many players go bad together without a reason. Clearly this manager and his staff don't have the right answers.
    Last edited by Spring~Fields; 06-27-2008 at 11:55 PM.

  15. #59
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Just because we haven't seen Dickerson play, doesn't mean the Reds brass haven't seen him play. I'm sure they have seen enough of him to conclude that he would be of no help to the club (at least at this stage of his career), and that the team (either for the short term, long term, or both), is better off having Patterson in Cincinnati and Dickerson in Louisville. Now if you don't agree with--or have doubts about--Walt's talent-evaluating capability, then that's a whole different topic.
    Is this the same Reds brass that said the team was coming together just a couple of weeks ago....that they had turned a corner as it were?

    My point of the thread was that I am beginning to lose faith in the Reds brass.

    If Dickerson would be so bad, then why does the Reds brass have him playing Cf for their AAA team? After all, isn't he supposed to be one of the new and talented studs in the pipeline?

    Hoping the Reds are building a winner here is almost as bad as believing that whichever Senator we elect to be President will bring about CHANGE in Washington.
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  16. #60
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Anybody else upset???????

    Quote Originally Posted by Spring~Fields View Post
    Jocketty needs to bring in his own people Tony Larusa, Dave Duncan and McRae. Baker, Pole and the rest of the coaching staff are not up to Jocketty standards of excellence.
    The only thing worse than watching Dusty manage the Reds would be having to endure Tony Larussa.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton


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